MichaelEmeryArt

Greek Pedagogical pederasty

                                                           and the Female (passive) roled male

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The Reason for creating this page revolves around the fact that I for some reason was "Pre-disposed" toward the homosexually 

passive role,(age 13) in that once my friend, showed me attention,began to seduce me, though was hesitant shortly, I wanted him,

and very much wanted to be his "passive partner". Yet , prior to his seduction of me, I had clearly been lusting to perform Fellatio on

my young handsome gym teacher since first seeing him nude in showers, his big cock with hair, compared to my hairless cock, I already been sucking my own cock and ejaculating in my mouth ,swallowing the semen..I remember so much desiring to have the gym teacher ejaculate in my mouth.

  Thus once my friend offered to let me start performing Fellatio on himself, I was quite eager, once I began to , it seemed 100% my
role.I wanted to as much as he wanted me to, and much more. Introducing his older friend to me was wonderful,his penis was big had hair around it similar to the gym teacher and once he started allowing me to Fellate him, I very much loved the amount of semen
he would ejaculate in my mouth.

However the "Point of No Return" as far as being a Fem-male and Female roled male ,  a HomoSexual transgender person was clear
once my friends started taking me anally, and ejaculating up inside me , and calling me their "Girly-boyfriend", I loved the "Girl" aspect of that term, wished the "boy part" was absent.

And at age 8 years old I was commonly sneaking and wearing my mom's or grandmother's thigh-highs and panty hose under my jeans ?, wanting to perform fellatio on my same age friend, and doing so ? 

I never stopped wanting to be a "Girly-boyfriend", only suppressed it, due to the Social Structure in grew up in,which clearly caused great psychological hardship. 


               And for myself I clearly would of became a "  eromenos " passive fem-boy for my gym teacher(Man) or another Man.
               If living in the Greek times under the below  " Greek pederasty code " 
                           And remained a  eromenos, and likely, as now want to be a feminine as possible

Yet a Question I have pondered for years is, and arises from the following passage;

 

   "An elaborate social code governed the mechanics of Greek pederasty. It was the duty of the adult man to court the boy who struck his fancy, and it was viewed as socially appropriate for the younger man to withhold for a while before capitulating to his mentor's desires. This waiting period allowed the boy to ensure that his suitor was not merely interested in him for sexual purposes, but felt a genuine emotional affection for him and was interested in assuming the mentor role assigned to him in the pederastic paradigm. 

The age limit for pederasty in ancient Greece seems to encompass, at the minimum end, boys of twelve years of age. To love a boy below the age of twelve was considered inappropriate, but no evidence exists of any legal penalties attached to this sort of practice. Traditionally, a pederastic relationship could continue until the widespread growth of the boy's body hair, when he is considered a man. Thus, the age limit for the younger member of a pederastic relationship seems to have extended from 12 to about 17 years of age.  

                                      Thus Once a Man , you take the  "Penetrative role "


it still was not entirely regarded as a homosexual union, given that one partner would have to take on a passive role, and would therefore no longer be considered a ‘man’ in terms of the sexual union.[8

                                                                                                                      - wikipedia


                                                My problem is ; I have never wanted in the Man Role,

                                                   simple was informed this is How it Works!  (by Society)

                                       Take the Man role, whether it is right or not, and good luck!

                                                    -Just supress it, and be happy to be Alive! -

                                         ( which I've been told to do, especially by christian people )

                              Now I say to them " Just suppress your judgements and be happy your Alive! "

                                                              and remind them there is a very,very good reason for separation

                                                              of church and state.


The Question has been for myself,

 " I was only in the passive role,only ever have desired to be in the passive role"

       It would be as though Morally wrong , completely against my nature to even consider being in

       the male role as " Penetrative partner", even the few times I have , against my will, allowed a few men to                  perform fellatio on me, clearly after the act, I was upset, it wasn't right for me, as though both morally and

       spiritually wrong for myself, not my Role.

  Even sex with females, I felt this way, yet was at least tolerable, at least I convinced myself that it was, due to fact   that Society said it should be.

                    Thus how could a young male be the passive partner, say from 12 to 17 years of age, and not be

                    completely " Femininized ", ? or where there some whom remained like myself;

                           "the remaining  lives desiring only to be " a female roled male "

         Desiring to be as Feminine as possible for men, so as they will like having you as a "girly-boy" ?

                                 Thus where this the true HomoSexual transgender ones ?

                            The others heterosexuals, simply seeing it as a Social construct, doing their time, getting

                             educated ?




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excerpts from above site;

There are, indeed, a great many pictures on vases that show how an older lover, the erastes, courts a boy, the eromenos. They appear not to be of the same age: the erastes has a beard and plays an active role, whereas the adolescent has no beard and remains passive. He will never take an initiative, looks shy, and is never shown as excited. It is assumed by many modern scholars that as soon as the adolescent had a beard, the love affair had to be finished. He had to find an eromenos of his own.


This is not just Plato's portrayal of his admired teacher. That Socrates was well-known for this attitude is more or less confirmed by another student, the mercenary leader and author Xenophon (c.430-c.354). He informs us that his master, when challenged by the presence of a good looking adolescent, remained capable of self-control

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 Excerpts from; pdf


Higher Love: 
Elitism in the Pederastic Practice of Athens 
in the Archaic and Classical Periods 
by
Caitlin Deega
n
 
 

It seems that as the economy grew in ancient Athens, so,
too, did pederasty’s link to elitism. Early images of black figure
vases feature pederastic scenes that implicate ritual much more
heavily than later red figure scenes which focus on courtship, the

buying of expensive gifts to woo young men, and the placement 
of pederastic couples in elitist surroundings, such as gymnasia.15

Additionally, during the archaic period when wealthy families
were synonymous with politics, pederasty and its accompanying
imagery may have been used to ensure the continued hegemony of
the families. One key function of pederasty, such as it was
practiced in ancient Athens, was the introduction of the eromenos
to members of society that could advance him politically or
economically.16 Boys from the lower economic class, such as
farmers’ sons, would most likely not have engaged in pederastic
relationships. 
Often, a lower class boy’s status inherently
prohibited him from becoming an eromenos; it is unlikely his
father would be able to forgo his son’s labor to allow the boy to
spend his hours with an older man at a symposium or in the
gymnasium.17 Similarly, it is unlikely that an erastes would choose
a lower class boy or that a lower class man would become an
erastes. The erastes was required to court a youth, and often the
lavishness of his gifts reflected well on both himself and his young
conquest. A poor farmer would have little chance of wooing a boy, 

as the likelihood that he would have superfluous funds for courting

would be quite slim. 
Additionally, no upper class erastes would
spend his time courting a poor boy, as this courtship would not
increase his social standing. Thus, the ideological motivations
behind pederasty, when examined through the lens of Marxist
theory, are seen to be primarily political and economic; pederasty
was not simply a pedagogical practice meant to initiate young men
into manhood; rather, it was motivated by class and intended to
secure the hegemony of that class through its inherent exclusivity. 

Being a materialist theory, Marxism holds that artistic
production is a part of a society’s superstructure; the superstructure
is said to naturalize class differences, and in relation to pederasty,
vase painting and Greek comedy were used to naturalize pederasty
as a pursuit of the elite, further strengthening the idea that the
practice was inaccessible to lower classes. In the case of comedy,
this idea of inaccessibility was achieved through the presentation
of pederasty as a ridiculous and unenviable form of elitism, though
distinctly elitist all the same. In vase painting, inaccessibility was
achieved by the reinforcement of pederasty as elitist through
symbols, such as comically lavish courting gifts, like leopards.
Both artistic media present the class difference as concrete and
unable to be changed – the chance of a farmer or painter being able
to afford a leopard to present as a courting gift is impossible, and 
pederasty’s consistently negative presentation in comedies would
discourage any lower class citizen from envying it as an institution,
effectively preventing any citizen from wishing to incite more
universality in the practice.


The Eromenos

Characteristics of the role

Erastes and Eromenos Flanked by a Dead Hare and a Dead Fox. Attic black-figure cup by the Sokles Painter, c. 550–530 B.C. Swiss private collection.

The youth was expected to put up resistance to the entreaties of the various erastai seeking to win his affection, in order to test their seriousness of purpose, and to choose the most deserving. As a result, in Attica, eromenoi were assiduously courted, and were at times the object of street fights and arguments among the young men vying for their affection.[2] Some of the eromenoi moved in with their lovers, with whom they lived for some period of time, usually until coming of age. Most erastai-eromenoi relationships were expected to break apart when the young partner entered adulthood (signaled by the growth of a beard), although a minority of couples stayed together as full-time lovers.

The Greeks recognized and valued that time in the life of a boy when he was considered to be ripe for loving; the Greek word used to describe such a boy was hôraios, meaning "in season" or "in bloom".[3] Eromenoi were generally males aged twelve to seventeen.[4] Though the eromenos was valued for his beauty, he was appreciated even more for his modesty, industriousness and courage. In Plato's Symposium (191e–192a), the character Aristophanes says that the eromenoi who "love men and enjoy lying with men and being embraced by men" are not shameless, but rather "the best of boys and lads, because they are the most manly in their nature" (though this may have been a view held by aristocratic Athenians of Plato and Aristophanes' type, the nature of Platonic dialogues makes it uncertain whether it was actually held by either Plato or Aristophanes themselves).

The eromenos was typically portrayed as undergoing pedagogical training, and while he typically was also the object of affection and passion, he was not necessarily sexually engaged. When present, sexual expression is depicted in the iconography as having consisted primarily of fondling and intercrural sex. Anal sex appears to have been less common, yet frequent enough to be a topic of comedy, and of criticism based on the opinion that it was a was a shameful practice[5] and risked feminizing the boys who grew to like it.




   Erastes -Characteristics of the role

   ( single 20-30 years of age, seems what historical records show)


A number of ancient sources, such as Plato's Phaedrus and Aeschines' Against Timarchos, indicate that the ideal erastes was restrained in his relations with his beloved, and his love was an expression of his generosity and sympathy. He is contrasted to the man who hires boys for his pleasure and "behaves grossly" with them, the mark of an abusive and uneducated person.[2] Xenophon also comments, incidentally, on one of the characteristics of the ideal erastes, indicating that such a man would hide nothing concerning the eromenos from the father of that youth.

The function of the erastes was to love and educate—or provide for the education of—the youth. The nature of that education varied with the culture of their respective polis, but generally was grounded in the physical culture of the gymnasium, which included athletics and military training, as well as philosophical and musical studies. Erastai would on many occasions make a contract or promise with his intended or intendeds parents, setting the limits and terms of the relationship.


Erastai are often described as exerting a great deal of effort to attract the attention and the sympathy of an eromenos. This task often led to street fights with other suitors, family arguments, outrageous behavior like sleeping on the boy's stoop, writing of love poems, bestowing of gifts, and, at times, outright coercion.


For myself, if I had grown up in a culture;

 where being a young male that wanted to be in the -female role- sexually was accepted, and like what actually happened with me,  as soon as puberty was complete, two youth soon took me as their " female roled male lover " (girly-boyfriend).

 Within a matter of weeks, I was performing fellatio on them or they were penetrating and ejaculating in my bottom nearly everyday.

Thus within a small community it was impossible to keep this secret very long, and in our case within several months the talk was circulating at school that I was performing fellatio on my friends (someone seen us in act). 

If it was accepted as part of the Culture that some males, where " female roled sexually " like myself,

I would of continued having sex as I was, and because shortly after being "found-out", many other males near my age would ask me if I would perform fellatio one them or if they could" bone me ", many of them I would have been a "girly-boyfriend " for, if not the fact that I was very traumatized by the whole event. Which lead to my isolating myself from society, long periods of depression, hopelessness, suicidal thinking.


My point being is if a culture is to shame, that culture also has to have a way to nuture that individual, in a way adapted to their need, for example the Native American's Two-Spirit way (berdache). In this regard far

more advanced then modern America.


                                                  "We are not homogenized"

One thing unique about a young " female-roled male ", like myself,  is like I mention above , once I was known as

a " Femboy ", or that I loved to suck cock, and get boned, I became popular or of interest to many males my age, thus as a Society we must know this is going to occur at some level, and from my point of view, once one takes this Role of  

"female-roled male", your quickly " femininized, and that in it's self is very intoxic, psychologically transforming into a           female psychosexually (I always see / imagine / want myself to be female when having sex). Along with that a strong need to   get as much Affirmation from other males in direct experience way !. Example; every time a man asks me to give him a         blow-job or tells me he'd like to bone me (kindly), then it actually occurs, in essense " he is saying, yes Michael you   can be like a female " , this is over whelmingly affirming !. For myself , and especially in 1998 I had a very high sex         drive, so I wanted the attention of a lot of men ," like a female in constant HEAT ! ". I literally would of liked to of been         having sex with as many men as I could of every day, all day, as though a full time job. Especially taking their cocks up in       me to recieve their semen (bred me ), the more I got boned the more Femininized / emasculated I felt, I wanted every aspect   of being a male drained from me, and replaced with female essense.


Thus, since Greek society at Time of Plato still is considered to be what Western civilization is largely modeled from, did the Greeks establish this custom to Nuture selected young men to be great,well rounded men to be leaders,  After all Plato wrote this ;


“is regarded as shameful by barbarians and by those who live under despotic governments just as philosophy is regarded as shameful by them, because it is apparently not in the interest of such rulers to have great ideas engendered in their subjects, or powerful friendships or passionate love-all of which homosexuality is particularly apt to produce.”- Plato

                                                              (and Christianity is one of these)


Increased Risk for Suicidal Thoughts Among Transgender Studentspsychcentral.com


    " I myself know several young males whom took their lives in those days, whom had the same Nature as myself, and very good people "


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excerpt from ;

      Pederasty: An Integration of Empirical, Historical, Sociological, Cross-Cultural, Cross-Species, and Evolutionary Evidence and             Perspectives  pdf
                               by Bruce Rind






Finally, it is important to emphasize that, in light of cross-cultural research on male homosexuality in societies tolerating or encouraging this behavior, and in view of the radically changed environment of widespread tolerance in our society today regarding this behavior, in which homosexual persons are often normal in adjustment or untroubled by their sexuality, it becomes clear that homosexual patients’ difficulties with their sexuality in the past were not the primary effects of their homosexuality but interaction effects with a culture that severely stigmatized and disadvantaged them. For currently disapproved sexualities, it is important to take into account and distinguish between primary and interaction negative effects.

my thought is Plato felt that same sex relationships could be wonderful,yet only in proper context

                  I can see where , a culture that accepts, and has a established institution of the Third-gender, berdache,muxe etc. .

                  Once I had reached puberty, clearly showed that my desire was to be a male's "girly-boyfriend" take the female /passive 

                  role , There would be a group of older males and females schooled in training me in roles best suited for me in society.


                           This is how a advance Civilization moves ahead, not by doing what was done not so long ago on the issue of ;

                                                                      Same-Sex Marriage here in the United States.

                                                        Even the Supreme Court Justices whom voted to make it legal,

                                                       made it clear, this issue should of Not come before their Court!


                                                                                                   ↓

                                       " Justices Stephen G. Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor and Clarence Thomas haven’t written separate opinions on gay marriage in cases decided by the Supreme Court, and have kept tight-lipped on the issue in recent years — though the left-leaning Breyer and Sotomayor sided against DOMA in 2013, and Thomas has joined his fellow conservatives in voting that the court shouldn’t rule on gay marriage."


                             " In the case Hollingsworth v. Perry, Chief Justice Roberts wrote that judicial precedents that courts only answer questions that are “viewed as capable of resolution through the judicial process” are “an essential limit on our power: It ensures that we act as judges, and do not engage in policymaking properly left to elected representatives.” It’s a similar argument to the one Alito and Scalia make in Windsor.


                             "

Justice Antonin Scalia

“This case is about power in several respects,” Scalia wrote in his dissenting opinion on the Windsor case, arguing the courts should not decide laws on gay marriage. “It is about the power of our people to govern themselves, and the power of this Court to pronounce the law. Today’s opinion aggrandizes the latter, with the predictable consequence of diminishing the former. We have no power to decide this case.”            - time.com

                                                                   

A Great Society doesn't just happen, it's the responsiblity of each Individual to work toward it, is that enough of a reason to be alive?

                                           There is no reason there can not be Schools just for Transgender youth

                            As they do have at this time, due to non-acceptance, in part greatly empowered hate by religion

I think in the United States, if Society as a Whole can't mature, or is held by religious ideology, then even a Set State for transgender people can go,live and be free from those whom show hate for them.One reason we have States, or a Good reason for States.

     Be nice to have a Religion free state, which U S was suppose to be ! or at least Religion was not suppose to impose it's 

     ideology on others.

                                                                                               


Like Plato stated Only those,  of say now you could call;" Those of High Self Actualization, Being-Cognition,Developmental potential" should be leaders, Maybe at one time any Tom,Dick or Harry could run for a High Office, unless we realize that don't work no more!

  Establish University just for " Leadership Roles " and leader must be trained to Lead, this society is going to Fail, in part by simply       poor leadership ability. - my opinion

                                                                                                

Even the in "Indigo club " concept, I tried to frame a scenario where a " female roled male " like myself could be in the sexual role they desire, safely with selected (Str8) straight heterosexual married men, that are educated, being cognitive,and have consenting female wives/partners. It may or may not work, the point is only it is a effort for a idea,I could of been educated in ways of being a "female roled male" , sexual ethics,safe anal sexual methods,fellatio etc. as that is the reality of what my role will be most likely for life. by age 18 I could of belonged to a Indigo institute, where the Men could give me sexual attention, get to know the wives, and hopefully maybe the couple could take me , say as a ;


Fem-male / eunuch / Au pair  type person
I know I longed for to be like a; Fem-male / eunuch / Au pair  type person for several married males I normally would sexually pleasure.
  First get to know her, see if it was possible for her to accept me as a "Fem-male", like in "Terrace", and reason I wrote Terrace as        after so much sex, and still alone, instead got a dog "George" and became celibate.
  it is humanly possible,if  her and I could form a platonic bond.
  I know for sure if I could of been a  Berdache / eunuch / Au pair person partnered with a married male/female couple I would of           likely had the vulvoplasty surgery, thus become physically emasculated
  And I personally like helping teach children, especially in ways of Nature,Art.
  And clearly the basic family unit is in need of help,to move into the future.

     Then by 18 years old the " Fem-male " could undergo the vaginoplasty or vulvoplasty surgery to be physically emasculated.

        Hopefully the "Fem-male " could be selected / partnered with a couple, and thus leave group to go live with them, or a alternative         would be the "Fem-male" meets a man outside the group, thus prior to having sex with this man, the Fem-male must leave the           group,  if any of the relationships fail for the Fem-male, he can return to group after being screened for health.

          As can the Str8 men.


My opinion is from my own experience no one should be Allowed to have any type of ;

         " gender confirmation surgery or hormone therapy before age 18, even that is marginal, as far as psychological development"

My self, I wouldn't of done hormone thing, as my need for " Looking very Female like " was never there, my big desire has always been the vaginoplasty or vulvoplasty surgery, which I know now I wish to have the vulvoplasty surgery, yet at 18, in 1979, I don't know

 as by having sexual relationships with females, I learned by Contrast, that I was much in need to be in Fem-male role;

                                                                                      which by far I preferred

I've always wanted to be only female like appearing in a high degree this regard


                " I clearly knew by about 22 years old, a mistake was made, and I needed to be in the Female role for a Str8 male"

                                                              As I simply Longed for being in the Fem-male role constantly

                                                               and to not have a penis, yet a a female like vulva / vagina

I can clearly see the Greeks were trying to teach these youths ( eromenoi ) wisdom,ethics 

  And I myself can see that if I could of been selected by a older male to teach me how to sexually be a good Fem-male   for life, even introduced me to sexual relations with a female, so I could of seen the contrast of being in the female role

  verse being in the male role. I know I would of selected female role, yet at least I would of tried the male role, at same    time hopefully forming a platonic friendship with a female.

   For myself " the female role is 100% right and non-changing, I tried.!

           What is the Age of Consent in the United States?

- Berdache Ways - (anthropological perspective)

    In a sense, Native American cultures have institutionalized and socially sanctioned homosexual relations by utilizing the berdache role as the preferred same sex partner. When men want to have male/male sex, they are encouraged to do so with a berdache (95). 



     ♥ Berdaches frequently are available for sex with both unmarried adolescent boys and married men who occasionally seek out same sex partners. Because of this, female prostitution is not needed. Traditional berdaches were also available as sexual partners during hunts and in war parties (102). This was yet another reason why they were welcomed on these excursions.


      The usual sexual behavior of the berdache is to take the passive role in anal intercourse. At times they may indulge in oral sex or take the active role in anal intercourse, but this is not widely talked about. If a berdache wishes to take an active role, it is usually done only in secret and with a partner who can be trusted not to talk. This is also true of the feelings of the man involved with a berdache. If he wishes to assume the passive role, he will try to keep the activity secret.


                     Reading the above, I was very ready at age 13 to be in all the above roles, as long as the Males were  "Fit "

                     meaning respectful, kind, gentle , clean and only asked of me to be in " Female Role ". As I have never penetrated

                     a male nore would I, only a few times have I allowed a male to perform Fellatio on me, and found it is very bad for me

                     emotionally, confused me regret ever allowing, same for myself trying to be in Male role with female, it is confusing, 

                     very much against my ethics, desire, my self-concept.


                     I am quite sure if I had continued having sex with my two friends at age 13, until 16 , and a older male, that I found fit,

                     that I was attracted to;  I would of eagerly have let him take me a full time " Fem-male " partner;

                                                                                (a male well into 30's - 40's , who knows )

                     I know I was very sexually attracted to one of my gym teachers, he had to of been in mid 20's, if I had been a berdache

                     in a Native tribe, and he wish to start " boning me ", I clearly would of eagerly.


                      And for example my two friends whom I was allowing to " bone me " , had asked me if I minded if they told other friends

                      that they knew, if I might like meeting them, I told them only if they treated me kind like they had been doing . 

                      This was prior to getting Found out, Shamed etc,  , thus ending all the encounters, yet again, if part of the Native tribe

                                                      - I was fully ready to be a Fem-boy for the young men or adult men -

      As a modern society that isn't accepting aspects of Human Nature, this can only cause problems

             For example;  

                                      I clearly should of had a option of not taking showers with the boys, because I was sexual attracted to them

                                      in very much a female might be. So for me , I took it upon myself and stopped taking showers at school.

                                      No teachers showed interest in why, ever asked what occurred even though they clearly knew students

                                      were talking about me being a  " girly-boyfriend " for my two friends.

                                       Yet I clearly had all the traits of a " berdache " type, 

                                       At least now , I know to say that " I want to have a boyfriend, like a girl does " if asked, still today I'd be made

                                       fun of, almost certainly, thus most likely be ashamed to tell Parents, that I like boys, I want them to have sex

                                       with me like I am a girl !

Even Today our culture allows this; 

excerpt 

                 " With every sin there are multiple levels of why it's offensive to God and to be avoided. The simplest is clearly to say the                        Bible says it is. And we should start there; and if we can go deeper, that's good."

excerpt ↑ ;

                      " Is homosexuality a sin? And who do we believe?
God is the ultimate and sovereign judge for sin. Homosexuality is sin by His order; it is not decided by public opinion or deceived/false clergy. Changing societies do not dictate God's standards. Sin is defined by God for us in the Bible. It is the source for what God says is holy and righteous or sin and abomination. Hebrews 13:8 states that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever; he does not “go with the flow.” 


                           These People should be the One's whom feel ashamed!

How would anyone like hearing this contantly, and it not have severe psychological impact on them, especially a youth struggling to come to terms with it for their Own Self ?

                                                                                                        

                                     

This is a Huge problem  ;   Yet I don't indentify as Gay, and I am only sexually attracted to non-gay men , I don't have romantic

relationships with my Straight male friends , for example a Straight male is never going to try to kiss me on lips, make-out with me like he does a real female, I don't want him to, if he did, I know he isn't straight, and would not have sex with him.


                                        It's not that Homosexuality is the Problem in it's self, it's the men themselves, whom have sex with others

                                        whom are not Safe and STD free.

                                        Yet the root of it all starts with Society never accepting same sex sex in the first place.


                                         Men not knowing their Roles, men who call themselves bi-sexual, whom perform in both roles, then have                                              sex with females, etc.


For example; If I had a Indigo group, with myself being the " Fem-male ", and 50 straight males whom routinely " bone me ".

                        All of us are tested, 100% free of STD's.    How are we going to get STD's ?

                               Only way is, if their wives or girlfriends are being unfaithful


                        With Terrace, that's as close as 100% safe as it can be Jodi,William and I  , yet the homosexual element is there.

                        

         Thus one can't say " Homosexuality is wrong because of  spread of STD's "

                         It's wrong, sure not to have safe sex, yet heterosexual people, do that a lot as well.

                        How many " Trans " type people are celibate like myself ? , yet we are still want a man to sexually treat us,

                                                                                   Like a Lady

                       is it the Act of then that's the Sin ?, so if I don't have sex, yet still am a form of Homosexual is that a Sin ?

                                                    And only way to change Want is a " Brain Transplant "


                                                                                                






                                                                Members Only


                              There is No reason Gay men could not have a Indigo group, 

                                          where all members are screened,tested for all STD's prior to being a 

                                                     member, then must not stray outside of that Group !

                                                                      Married to the Group period !

                                                                          - 100% STD free zone -



                                           And would be Wise to get started Forming these Groups! 


       Even as a Fem-male, I might join such a group, and let some of the men that are strictly -total / power Top s-  " bone me "

                                                                I'd join just to get routinely " Gang-banged "

           Yet must be strictly closed group, and safe, no one trying to play with my penis,suck it, etc.must act like a Straight male

           If member joins as Top only role can ever be, same for bottoms, No versatiles allowed , no making out etc.at group 


                                         Thus if I was one of the bottoms for the Group, Then I am obligated to do just that,                                                  whether at the group, privately , and for all of them and getting gang-banged is a aspect of being a bottom.


Wikipedia - With regard to gay male sexuality, a total top is one who assumes an exclusively penetrative role for sex.[2] A power top is one noted for their great skill or aggressiveness in topping. I love being taken by a man who knows how to " Bone "


I'd try to have the group 40 tops and 10 bottoms, any member can choose whom they do and don't wish to have sex with,

                             ( could be 5-40 tops, 1 bottom, which would be nice for me, I'd love to have 5-40 guys gang-bang me every weekend )

some how there would have to be away of judging when and if a member would have to be removed from group due to not behaving etc. So members would needed to be selected wisely !

                                           " The bottoms need to desire to have sex with all of the tops "

                                                                                                  ♦

Be a good place for a few " bottoms " to find some " Tops " to form a "Indigo" type club

                                                              

  These Clubs are not safe though ,unless 100% safe , prior to joining, then never having sex ever again outside of the members !


  Then if one found enough guys interested, they'd have to remain celibate, other then hand-jobs, for at least 4 months then;

   get fully tested.Then form the group, and if did stray, leave the group!. Really is a simple challenge, that educated people should be

  able to pull off !  


And still a option for myself, if I could find the Total-Tops that where interested in only " boning " me, and have very much thought

of trying to form a group like this. They could be both proclaimed Gay and Straight, yet all Total-Tops, and all only having sex with   me, the number of men would be only limited to ; Who could pass the STD tests, Whom I found fit, and how many I               actually could keep sexually satisfied to their liking, if I had 40 men in my group, and all wanted to bone me everyday, I         couldn't pull that off, I could handle 5-6 a day, if I was self-employed. Then all of them on weekends, either by getting gang-banged, double-teamed and individually, however they wished.    (gang-banged=more then 2 men at once )


Yet it always returns to 1 Fem-male like myself, with 2 or more 100% Top Men whom want me in female role strictly for sex and non-romantic friendship (no hugging,kissing type romance thing)...I think once there is another bottom involved it gets to complex, very reason as well ,if I committed myself completely, to say 10 men, I have to be there for them sexually pretty much as often as they wish. In away similar to myself being a carpenter, I have joined in  with a few fellow carpenters, to form a working partnership, and it's hard to make a partnership like that work, due many things,expectations etc.


I have been with a man whom I call very experienced ; Total / Power Top Man, very Hung , very, very good at boning, 

                                                                                                thus easy for him to be very much wanted by bottoms,

                                                                                                                  and Fem-males like me

                                                                                               he just liked " boning " total bottoms like me, I loved him to bone me, 

                                                                                               When he did come around, yet he wasn't around much.

                         (I would allow him to ejaculate in me, even though I knew he was boning other bottoms, yet ended it soon due to that)


The men from the " Last Man Standing parties " would see me if in town,they all where Str8, and I was only Fem-male they had ever boned, thus I wanted and allowed all of them to ejaculate in me .Yet seeing them was very random, I wanted a solid, regular partner,that was 100% male roled whom didn't see other fem-males and whom I could live with, whom might bone me everyday if possible.   " I wanted a Full time Man " was really tired of the worrying etc,etc.


Thus back to " Terrace " as what I think is most likely possible, if wanting relationship with Str8 man, beyond casual sex and benefitting a small group of three people in a realistic way.

                                                                                                                                                                                                             

The Whole thing isn't much different then War on Drugs, it can only be improved by thinking of New Ways to fulfill a need

                                                                                         What is the Need ?

                                                                                   And how can it safely be met ?


                                      Condemning based on a belief has not worked,will only cause greater harm, 

                                                                              New  ideas / solutions are works.

                                                                                    It' really easy just to Hate.

                                                                           Seems not much effort in that for some. 



Personally due to fact nothing has changed much since 2005, regarding all this , 

and reason I became Celibate then, and most likely

will til I die, We just can't seem to Change ! as a Society.

culture etc.

                                          Study Shows Men Attracted to Transgender Women are NOT Gay. DUH!


Scientist who specialize in sex and sexuality tested a sample of men using a device that measures the reaction of a mans privates to various visual stimuli.  Men who are attracted to transgender women were not turned on by porn featuring two gay men, but they were turned on by porn featuring women only, and three kinds of “shemale” porn (“Man on Shemale”, “Shemale on Female”, and “Shemale on Shemale”).  So a man who likes transgender women (people born essentially biologically male who are sociologically more like women) does not have to be “at least” bisexual, or really gay but hiding it, or any such thing.  What studies like this hi-lite is the sparse vocabulary most of us have in the USA.  Words for people who are into anything other than straight, heteronormative relationships but are not gay exist.  Most people don’t use them.  The reason for this is a deep need in US culture to have everything follow a nice neat binary classification. (Consider our "two party system".)


                                                                                             


                                                Show your Femininized / emasculated, Men can accept that,

                                                And best way to get Femininized is by being in Female Role,

                                                              looking and Acting the Part best one can

                                         Best way for me to feel Feminine, is have a Man's penis up inside me

                                                      

Although men with such interests are usually stereotyped as being gay, this could not be further from the truth. In fact, research has found that the vast majority (73%) of men who have sex with male-to-female transsexuals identify as straight or bisexual [2]. Likewise, persons who run trans porn sites have reported that most of their clients are straight men and that they have next to no gay audience at all [3].

Is a Straight male gay if he lets me give him a Hand-job ?..you think someone instantly becomes a different sexual orientation that easy?

Women and AIDS

Women make up a quarter of the estimated 20,792 AIDS diagnoses in 2014 and they represent one-fifth of the estimated 1,210,835 AIDS diagnoses in the U.S. since the start of the epidemic until 2014.

Women predominantly contract HIV from a male partner during sex, in fact, 87 percent of these new cases were attributed to heterosexual sex, while the remaining 13 percent were attributed to intravenous drug use.


            My guess is this male has been getting boned, then turning around and was having sex with a female . just a guess


                                  But Lies the Problem, it's not Homosexuality / same sex relationships are the true problem,

                      - It's the Ethics of the Individual's non-ability to be Open and Honest -

                                  

excerpts from  ;

"Plato, as many ancient Greeks and Romans, believed that homosexuality was acceptable. I hesitate to use the word natural here, because I believe that Plato saw ‘natural’ as something relating more to procreation and less according to biological predisposition. Of course, there is the notion that Plato had different meanings for homosexuality ranging from love to simple intercourse to rape.


“Homosexuality,” Plato wrote, “is regarded as shameful by barbarians and by those who live under despotic governments just as philosophy is regarded as shameful by them, because it is apparently not in the interest of such rulers to have great ideas engendered in their subjects, or powerful friendships or passionate love-all of which homosexuality is particularly apt to produce.”




                                                                        Just a Scenario
   Lets say, I live on a Island with 50 heterosexual men, I am Transgender / female-roled male, thus all the men come to me when
      they desire to have penetrative sex , sex with another human being , a need to have a sexual connection beyond just self, that         which masturbation can only bring; 
                                                                        There are no STD's, thus safe in that regard , they will not have sex with each other,
                                                                         So they come to me, so they can penetrate / ejaculate in me.

                                                                         Myself, I very much don't see this as un-ethical, and most likely helps prevent
                                                                         homosexually amongst the 50 heterosexual men !

                             If you Arrived on the Island suddenly,secretly spotted myself with the 50 men, as a voyeur watched from a distant
                             seeing in the ritual, each man would take his turn penetrating my bottom with his penis, hump me for a while,
                             obviously prior to ejaculating, the man would pull his penis out, I'd then take it in my mouth and and swallow his
                             semen as he ejaculated, soon another man, til all 50 had penetrated me, the last man would ejaculate up inside me

                                                       Coming from a Culture where this had never been seen,and where same sex ,sex was a sin
                                                        You'd likely run home, tell all what was seen, and yet not really Know what was Seen!

                             Here again is it the Same sex Act, or the whole Big picture, the Ethics of Each Individual

                             For example Plato / Socrates grasped Big picture understanding, which shows that by the writing of ;

                                                                                          Allegory of the Cave
                                                                                                                      

I learned a new term ↓ ; pdf below

 “prima facie argument.” Prima facie essentially means; 
            “at first glance” or “at first appearance.”based on the first impression; accepted as correct until proved otherwise.

       Unfortunately like Allegory of the Cave highlights, most people's lives are viewed thru a Lens of " Pre-Concieved Notions "


                                    " Thus can never really grasp the Content / Context / the Dynamics of a given situation "


                                                                                                     

                                                               Would it Matter if I looked as this  with the 50 men ?

                                       Is it that simple; Our bodies, how we look appear makes Us whom we really are ?

                                                 And how we feel in our mind and soul doesn't merit whom we really are ?

                                                                                               or matter

                                                                       Is it our body that leads us through this Life


                                                                                                   ?

My question is  " how and why did the Greeks come to adopt this Pedagogical pederasty way ?

                                 " just as the Native Americans having the " berdache way " ?

excerpt from 

           "Another case to be considered when discussing ideal pederastic relationships is that of Agathon and Pausanias.  Agathon was a young poet who hosted the dinner party that was the setting for Plato’s Symposium, and Pausanias was his erastes (Plato, 178A-185C: 180-182).  Their relationship was ideal in the sense that they differed in age by about 10 years, having started their relationship when Agathon was 18.  However, Agathon and Pausanias stayed together far longer than the typical pederastic couple.  It seems from the evidence available that neither man ever took a wife or had children.  In fact, when Agathon emigrated to Macedonia sometime between 411 and 405 to continue his career as a dramatist, Pausanias went with him (Dover, II.C.4.: 84).  While not completely different from the ideal pederastic relationship, Agathon and Pausanias prove that there were forms of same-sex desire and interaction in ancient Greece that went outside the ideal "


excerpt from "Preface /Greek Love " ;

The basic issue slurred over by these readers appears to have been the question of consent. How
young can a boy be to give a meaningful consent to a sexual proposition — whether or not it is part of
an ongoing deep relationship? Or, conversely, does an age exist below which a boy would be
bewildered, put off, frightened, or emotionally damaged by the potential introduction of sex into a
friendship with someone older enough to be (under other circumstances) a possible authority figure?
What effects have such incidents on boys’ psychosexual development, attitude to love (heterosexual
or otherwise) in later life, attitude to the older generation as a whole? 


The frequent claim — evidently in many cases entirely factual — that the sexual phase of a man-
boy friendship was initiated by the boy, likewise, has sometimes apparently been used as a way of
disclaiming responsibility on the man’s part. Is this a rare or common consequence in such affairs?
How can one know if a boy is really aware of what he is starting? What effect on his later life can be
anticipated from such an episode? And is it safe to assume that his lover is an idealist rather than a
casual exploiter? 


With the much younger ones, there is also a question of comparative size. Will their own
comparatively small immature genital development become a source of dissatisfaction and ego
damage? 


All these questions require answers, and to date nobody has begun the immense research projects
which might lead to reasonable answers — neither the entirely hopeful ones sought or guessed by
boy-lovers (when they think of such issues at all) nor the horror-stricken ones automatically assumed
by the rigidly conservative faction


It is because I had to take into account the possibility of an age below which consent (or even
solicitation by the boy) is essentially meaningless that I suggested limiting the term Greek Love to
those affairs in which the boy had already reached the puberal/adolescent capacity for one or another
kind of love — hero-worship, puppy love, “crushes”, and comparable phenomena.
The original
Bender-Blau study, cited in footnote [41], referred entirely to casual sex rather than to Greek love, so
that its conclusions are hardly to be compared with those that might be drawn either from the authentic
Greek love affairs or from the viciously exploitive bondage relationships occasionally reported in
tabloid view-with-alarm scare stories. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Scenario


I known for myself when I first starting having sex at age 13, it was in the passive (female role 100%), during the encounters, as in the " Preface above for Greek Love ". I was very much desiring to  initiate sex with older men ,even as old as late 20's at least.

The two boys whom where using me as a " passive "  eromenos roled partner, where asking /talking of sharing me with some older friends , whom I never met, due to our relationship being discovered, and quicky ended due to my self being publicly shamed. How even I was, very much desiring to meet other males, and if they would of happened to be older and attractive / yet very kind, respectful to me, I am sure age wouldn't have not been a issue.


Let's say the Greeks started this Custom to deal with homosexuality in the most Guided way they knew how, it clearly is evident these younger males are post-puberty age, like myself are already engaged in sex and in the " passive female role of being penetrated ". I clearly wanted the female role, I would say it's fairly accurate , to say ; " the more my two friends either had me performing fellatio on them, or penetrating me anally and ejaculating in me, the more Feminine I felt, as well as wanted to be.


It states in many writings I have come across that the eromenos was courted, and selected his erastai 


"The youth was expected to put up resistance to the entreaties of the various erastai  seeking to win his affection, in order to test their seriousness of purpose, and to choose the most deserving"


Like myself I would of likely been having sex with many of the youths my age and slightly older and in my passive female role

I quite certain I would of been at least performing fellatio on every youth my age whom would have asked me to, as long as I found him fit, kind, in essense " liked him ". Because I eagerly always wanted my two friends to penetrate me as often as possible verse 

just performing fellatio on them, thus I don't see how it would have been different for any other male whom would like to have sex with me then. I do know after the my two friends and I where discovered, many other boys would ask if I'd suck their cocks, which I often did want to, yet suppressed due to the " Shaming ".


A point here is this sounds in certain ways similar to the " berdache " tradition, where a culture has a way of dealing with transsexual boys like , transsexual in this context meaning " a boy who clearly desires to be in sexual role of a female ".             Which is simply how I have always felt.  


What is psychological impact of  being forced to live in away not aligned  with one's true nature ?


A Question I have always had is what percentage of the  eromenos remained in the " female role " on into adult hood ?

Research shows a percentage clearly did, and I see no reason I would of not remained in the eromenos role myself, I was highly femininized quickly by my two friends, and had no desire to pursuit sex with females, thus I would of been more and more adapted

to my " female role " dressing in more feminine ways for my boyfriends (which I was already wearing thigh-highs/panty hose).

Myself at age 13

I could of wearing more girl-like clothes, grew my hair out, had it cut so as to look more feminine, all of which I wanted to do, and feel

should of been doing.


However the Concept of Gay was foreign to me, all I knew was I loved being in the female role sexually with my boyfriends, and was just simply doing what was coming natural to me.It was a very confusing time for me,already hindered by the trauma of my parent's divorce at 6, clearly taking only females as my role models, growing up with never ending protests of Vietnam war, equal rights for blacks, which my two boyfriends were black, thus confusing to me ,why didn't they have equal rights ?.

Then suddenly to be called Gay, then made fun of !.


Lets say there was a established custom in the culture, say as the berdache or Greek custom, my mother and grandmother seeing that I was effeminate , and was having sex in the female role with the boys, and then found a older berdache, whom they could trusted and be in the Male role (penetrate me ) to teach me the ways to be fully femininized berdache, in best possible way.

For example ; properly know how to take a man's penis up in my bottom, perform fellatio. Or because this older berdache could not be in the Male role himself , yet would be having sex with straight heterosexual males himself , he could introduce and supervise as these Str8 males had sex with me in my female role, this could also properly allow all in involved to be shown how I should be treated  in the " group type setting ", where multiple men would take turns penetrating me,having me performing fellatio on them at one giving time and place, which in reality, for myself became my choose of having sex if it was at all possible. 

 I think what Harry Benjamin states below sheds light on why the transsexual like myself needs to be in the female role, say in a more extreme way then a true biological female does,the biological female doesn't need the               constant Affirmation from males that she is simply a female, cause she is physically female, I must                           overcome the fact that I have a male body, yet I need and want to be treated,desired to be as a female,

            and especially in a sexual manner, thus the more Attention from men, I can get in my female sexually role

            the more Affirmation, the better I would feel


"How much more can his femininity be reaffirmed than by again and again attracting normal, heterosexual,         and unsuspecting men and even being paid for rendering sex service as a woman?" - 

    (in regards to homosexual transexuals / HSTS) - Harry Benjamin / "The Transsexual Phenomenon"

                                                                                       


And for example in my experience , as far as the sex I was having starting in 1998 , I was the -eromenos-,

                                        and many, many young men in early 20's played the role of erastai 

                                               they were learning, and they knew they could have me sexual like a lady,

              practice , the Art of anal penetration on me, instead of a female, get blow-jobs from me, instead of female,

                                              and they knew  I let a group of them be with them in group settings

                                                                  a reverse of what is  described as the Greek custom

                                                                                   


 And I'm sure this was same in Greece at that time as well, " The much older eromenos , who remained in the Female role,yet was publicly a dishonor to remain eromenos once older. Still is, can't change.


My own experience in this Scenario, Here I am a older eromenos,and always will be is now is getting the attention of younger Str8 males who play the role of a  erastai, and in many ways if these young males could be together in a group setting,

   all of them in the  -erastai role- , with me,  see each other taking turns boning me, me sucking each of their cocks, there       was no dishonor, they had their own and each others Affirmation of ; " Yes we are all erastai, not feminine like a               eromenos like Michael's role"


excerpt from  ; Problem in Greek ethics

For the student of sexual inversion, ancient Greece offers a  wide field for observation and reflection. Its importance has  hitherto been underrated by medical and legal writers on the  subject, who do not seem to be aware that here alone in history-  have we the example of a great and highly-developed race not  only tolerating homosexual passions, but deeming them of spirit- 
ual value, and attempting to utilise them for the benefit of society.  Here, also, through the copious stores of literature at our dis-  posal, we can arrive at something definite regarding the various  forms assumed by these passions, when allowed free scope for  development in the midst of refined and intellectual civilisation. 


What the Greeks called paiderastia, or boy-love, was a pheno-  menon of one of the most brilliant periods of human culture, in  one of the most highly organised and nobly active nations. It is  the feature by which Greek social life is most sharply distin-  guished from that of any other people approaching the Hellenes  in moral or mental distinction. To trace the history of so  remarkable a custom in their several communities, and to  ascertain, so far as this is possible, the ethical feeling of the  Greeks upon this subject, must be of service to the scientific  psychologist. It enables him to approach the subject from  another point of view than that usually adopted by modern  jurists, psychiatrists, writers on forensic medicine.

  

 Very  early, however, in Greek history boy-love, as a form of sensual  passion, became a national institution. This is proved abun-  dantly by mythological traditions of great antiquity, by legen-  dary tales connected with the founding of Greek cities, and  by the primitive customs of the Dorian tribes. The question  remains how paiderastia originated among the Greeks, and  whether it was introduced or indigenous.

 Plato,  in his celebrated description of a lover's soul, writes: 3 —  

"Wherever she thinks that she will behold the beautiful one, thither in  her desire she runs. And when she has seen him, and bathed herself with  the waters of desire, her constraint is loosened and she is refreshed, and  has no more pangs and pains; and this is the sweetest of all pleasures at the  time, and is the reason why the soul of the lover will never forsake his  beautiful one, whom he esteems above all ; he has forgotten mother and  brethren and companions, and he thinks nothing of the neglect and loss of  his property. The rules and proprieties of life, on which he formerly  prided himself, he now despises,
and is ready to sleep like a servant,  wherever he is allowed, as near as he can to his beautiful one, who is not  only the object of his worship, but the only physician who can heal him in his  extreme agony." 

These passages show how real and vital was the passion of  Greek love. It would be difficult to find more intense ex-pressions of affection in modern literature. The effect produced  upon the lover by the presence of his beloved was similar to  that inspiration which the knight of romance received from his lady." -  JOHN ADDINGTON SYMONDS 

                                                                          I like Plato's writing above;

              especially ;    " and is ready to sleep like a servant,  wherever he is allowed, as near as he can to his beautiful one,                                                      who is not  only the object of his worship, but the only physician who can heal him in his  extreme agony." 


                                        " The extreme need for the sexual attention from a Man or Men "

                                               And the Men whom could treat me with much kindness I was extremely fond of.   -me

It may be judged superfluous to have proved that the female  form was idealised in sculpture by the Hellenes at least as  nobly as the male ; nor need we seek elaborate reasons why  paiderastia left no perceptible stain upon the art of a race  distinguished before all things by the reserve of good taste. At  the same time, there can be no reasonable doubt that the  artistic temperament of the Greeks had something to do with its  wide diffusion and many sided development. Sensitive to  every form of loveliness, and unrestrained by moral or religious  prohibition, they could not fail to be enthusiastic for that  corporeal beauty, unlike all other beauties of the human form,  which marks male adolescence no less triumphantly than does  the male soprano voice upon the point of breaking. The power  of this corporeal loveliness to sway their imagination by its  unique aesthetic charm is abundantly illustrated in the passages  which I have quoted above from the Charmides of Plato and  Xenophon's Symposium. An expressive Greek phrase, " Youths  in their prime of adolescence, but not distinguished by a special  beauty," recognises the persuasive influence, separate from  that of true beauty, which belongs to a certain period of  masculine growth. The very evanescence of this " bloom of  youth" made it in Greek eyes desirable, since nothing more  clearly characterises the poetic myths which adumbrate their  special sensibility than the pathos of a blossom that must fade.  When distinction of feature and symmetry of form were added  to this charm of youthfulness, the Greeks admitted, as true  artists are obliged to do, that the male body displays harmonies  of proportion and melodies of outline more comprehensive, more  indicative of strength expressed in terms of grace, than that of  women. 1 I guard myself against saying — more seductive to the  senses, more soft, more delicate, more undulating. The  superiority of male beauty does not consist in these attractions,  but in the symmetrical development of all the qualities of the  human frame, the complete organisation of the body as the  supreme instrument of vital energy. In the bloom of 
1 The following passage may be extracted from a letter of Winckelmann ;


 "As it is 
confessedly the beauty of man which is to be conceived under one general  idea, so I have noticed that those who are observant of beauty only in  women, and are moved little or not at all by the beauty of men, seldom  have an impartial, vital, inborn instinct for beauty in art. To such persons  the beauty of Greek art will ever seem wanting, because its supreme beauty  is rather male than female." To this I think we ought to add that, while  it is true that "the supreme beauty of Greek art is rather male than female."  this is due not so much to any passion of the Greeks for male beauty as to  the fact that the male body exhibits a higher organisation of the human form  than the female. 

Adolescence the elements of feminine grace, suggested rather  than expressed, are combined with virility to produce a  perfection which is lacking to the mature and adult excellence  of either sex. The Greek lover, if I am right in the idea which I  have formed of him, sought less to stimulate desire by the  •contemplation of sensual charms than to attune his spirit with  the spectacle of strength at rest in suavity. He admired the  chastened lines, the figure slight but sinewy, the limbs well-knit  and flexible, the small head set upon broad shoulders, the keen  eyes, the austere reins, and the elastic movement of a youth  made vigorous by exercise. Physical perfection of this kind  suggested to his fancy all that he loved best in moral qualities.  Hardihood, self-discipline, alertness of intelligence, health,  temperance, indomitable spirit, energy, the joy of active life,  plain living and high thinking — these qualities the Greeks  idealised, and of these, "the lightning vision of the darling,"  ■was the living incarnation. There is plenty in their literature  to show that paiderastia obtained sanction from the belief that  -a soul of this sort would be found within the body of a young  man rather than a woman. I need scarcely add that none but a  race of artists could be lovers of this sort, just as none but a  race of poets were adequate to apprehend the chivalrous  enthusiasm for woman as an object of worship." - 

In the first century of the Roman Empire, Christianity  began its work of reformation. When we estimate the effect of  Christianity, we must bear in mind that the early Christians  found Paganism disorganised and humanity rushing to a  precipice of ruin. Their first efforts were directed toward checking the sensuality of Corinth, Athens, Rome, the capitals  of Syria and Egypt. Christian asceticism, in the corruption of  the Pagan systems, led logically to the cloister and the  hermitage. The component elements of society had been  disintegrated by the Greeks in their decadence, and by the  Romans in their insolence of material prosperity. To the  impassioned followers of Christ, nothing was left but separation  from nature, which had become incurable in its monstrosity of  vices. But the convent was a virtual abandonment of social  problems.

" It does not follow from the facts which I have just discussed that, either at Athens or at Sparta, women were excluded from an important position in the home, or that the family in Greece was not the sphere of female influence more active than the extant fragments of Greek literature reveal to us. The women of Sophocles and Euripides, and the noble ladies described by Plutarch, warn us to be cautious in our conclusions on this topic" . - sacred-texts.com

 "The world of man is best captured through the lives of the men who created history." - Plutarch



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                                     After looking at the "Greek Custom of Pedagogical pederasty"


                                            I can only inject what I think I would of done being a " female-roled male " (eromenos),

                                            and if I selected to be with a older male, to gain experience,a better life.

                                            I don't think I'd have problem with it, however I can see myself remaining to see the male friends I had

                                            before taking that role, having sex with them, as long as they desired me, especially because from my

                                            my view point, I'd never be able to be in the male role (erasti), and the custom being , once older must

                                            take the erasti role.Thus I could return to having sex with many boyfriends,unless being taking by one of                                               these friends as "wife". No matter what , I am so psychologically /sexually- female roled-, there is                                                 no way I could ever desire to be in the -male sexual role-. 

                                                                - or as I have done 14 years of celibacy -


                                    Same applies in the berdache custom, I would continue to have sex with all the males                                                     through-out the their lives, as long as they desired me, treated me kind, unless by chance one of                                                     the males wanted to take me as " wife ", I think the same might of applied in the Greek Custom as                                                 well , just was kept secret. And the berdache dressed feminine, compared to the eromenos not.

                                                I would very much want to dress in such a way that clearly showed me as " berdache " and that 

                                                I am sexually a Female-role person.

                                                

       ( I am not trying to promote my type of sexual practices, simply trying to be truthful of what I like, and likely would wish to do )

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One must remember this was a different time in human history, from all the writing I have found, the truth points to the cultural accepted Custom of the Greeks was; 

   "The ideal pederastic relationship in ancient Greece involved an erastes (an older male, usually in his mid- to late-20s) and an              eromenos (a younger male who has passed puberty, usually no older than 18) .- Examining Greek Pederastic Relationships

  

     As well as with the Consent of the eromenos.


  Which was the case with me, and very consenting as with the 20 years whom asked me to have sex with them in my passive role 

  beginning in 1998.


 Thus for myself I would of been a ;     cinaedus,kinaidos type person. thus would never be able to be in erasti role.

 In ancient Koine Greek, the word for effeminate is κίναιδος kinaidos (cinaedus in its Latinized form), or μαλακοί malakoi: a man "whose most salient feature was a supposedly "feminine" love of being sexually penetrated by other men."


And not only then, but also when they are grown, they wear an outfit distinct from those of other men, from which each of them will be recognized as kleinos (famous). For they call the boyfriend a kleinos, - 


The clothing, use of cosmetics, and mannerisms of a cinaedus marked him as effeminate,

                                   (which as a fem-male , I desire to be seen as " feminine " )


Although in some contexts cinaedus  may denote an anally passive man[82] and is the most frequent word for a male who allowed himself to be penetrated anally.


The cinaedus thus represented the absence of what Romans considered true manhood, 

                                     (which as a fem-male, I desire to be free from true manhood )


The aging cinaedus or an anally passive man might wish to present himself as a puer.


pueri delicati  (pretty slave-boys, often naked, who performed gentle tasks like pouring wine and were available for sex)


A slave would never be considered a vir, a "real man"; he would be called puer, "boy", throughout his life


Pathicus was a "blunt" word for a male who was penetrated sexually. It derived from the unattested Greek adjective pathikos, from the verb paskhein, equivalent to the Latin deponent patior, pati, passus, "undergo, submit to, endure, suffer".[113] The English word "passive" derives from the Latin passus.[114]

Pathicus and cinaedus are often not distinguished in usage by Latin writers, but cinaedus may be a more general term for a male not in conformity with the role of vir, a "real man", while pathicus specifically denotes an adult male who takes the sexually receptive role.[115] A pathicus was not a "homosexual" as such. His sexuality was not defined by the gender of the person using him as a receptacle for sex, but rather his desire to be so used. Because in Roman culture a man who penetrates another adult male almost always expresses contempt or revenge, the pathicus might be seen as more akin to the sexual masochist in his experience of pleasure. He might be penetrated orally or anally by a man or by a woman with a dildo, but showed no desire for penetrating nor having his own penis stimulated. He might also be dominated by a woman who compels him to perform cunnilingus.[116]  (which I would do if her male lover penetrated me at same time -me )



Exoletus (pl. exoleti) is the past-participle form of the verb exolescere, which means "to grow up" or "to grow old".[102] The term denotes a male prostitute who services another sexually despite the fact that he himself is past his prime according to the ephebic tastes of Roman homoerotism.[103] Though adult men were expected to take on the role of "penetrator" in their love affairs, such a restriction did not apply to exoleti. In their texts, Pomponius and Juvenal both included characters who were adult male prostitutes and had as clients male citizens who sought their services so they could take a "female" role in bed (see above). In other texts, however, exoleti adopt a receptive position.


Exoleti, the word here translated as “catamites”, means males worn out either through being past their prime, or through excessive use as prostitutes.

                                             (as a fem-male, I can't take role of "penetrator", thus must adopt female role)

Editor's Abstract: This is the first publication of  Jeremy Bentham's essay on "Paederasty," written about 1785. The essay which runs to over 60 manuscript pages, is the first known argument for homosexual law reform in England. Bentham advocates the decriminalization of' sodomy, which in his day was punished by hanging. He argues that homosexual acts do not "weaken" men, or threaten population or marriage, and documents their prevalence in ancient Greece and Rome. Bentham opposes punishment on utilitarian grounds and attacks ascetic sexual morality. In the preceding article (Journal of Homosexuality, 3(4), 1978, p. 383-387) the editor's introduction discussed the essay in the light of 18th-century legal opinion and quoted Bentham's manuscript notes that reveal his anxieties about expressing his views.

pueri delicati (pretty slave-boys, often naked, who performed gentle tasks like pouring wine and were available for sex)

                    The aging cinaedus or an anally passive man might wish to present himself as a puer.

Puer delicatus. The beauty of the delicatus was measured by Apollonian standards, especially in regard to his long hair, which was supposed to be wavy, fair, and scented with perfume.

  Puer delicatus "The puer delicatus was an "exquisite" or "dainty" child-slave chosen by his master for his beauty as a "boy toy"    (I wanted my men to see me as their- fem-boy-toy- ,a very feminine one,  use me for sex in female role, might say , I wanted many masters)


The below video good example of me dressed to get boned. soon after done recording video, two young friends and I found refuge in the near by woods , both took turns boning me. I very much loved being their " femboy-toy " as often as could

 

                                                I think One might see why it is so difficult being a ;

                                 " Female-Roled male " , HSTS/ homosexual transsexual type male,


                                               Just in finding " Honor and Affirmation of identity "

                                                                   In a modern world , trying as safely, as can

I think the Greek Custom, the terminology used , the history available  shows it was not " Honorable " even if you were a male whom was taking the " Female Role ",and psychologically feminine, it was best not to show it publicly.

                    Yet there is no writings which suggest that men, whom remained "Female Roled ", were ever targeted for violence.

                    There was no  Abrahamic religions.


   In essence very much like today in the United States,(yet not in past) after over 2 thousand years, why is that ?


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                                                  The evidence clearly points to Abrahamic religions

                                                                        Christianity leads

                                                so why so much violence ? 


          Do you ever wonder why the Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Islam and Judaism) are; 

                                                                           so rife with violence?


The violence of Islam is painfully obvious: even today, Islamic theocracies declare jihad (even between different schools of Islam, what to speak of other religions); death sentences for adultery and homosexuality as well as for Danish cartoonists who dare draw the image of Mohammed; even death sentences for those who convert to a non-Islamic religion.


Judaism actually has more death penalties (at least 26, according to my reckoning) than any other religion. For example, the death penalty is called for disobedient children (Exodus 21:17); women who are not virgins when they marry (Deuteronomy 22:13-21); and collecting firewood during the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36). Any non-Jew entering the Solomon's Temple would be executed. Of course, there is the issue of non-stop animal sacrifices being performed in that Temple.


One may argue that Christianity and Judaism are no longer violent as they were in the past. Why? Did they find some obscure verse in their scriptures which condemns violence? No. They are no longer violent because these religions do not have the unlimited power that they once had. They now need to appear "warm and fuzzy" in order to attract followers. 


If any country were to become a Christian or Jewish theocracy, rest assured that the violence would resume. A popular school of thought called "Christian Reconstructionism" advocates that returning to the Old Testament (Jewish) injunctions is necessary in order to usher in Jesus' Second Coming. Orthodox Jews wish to rebuild the Temple, and resume the animal sacrifices there in order that their Messiah can appear.


For Protestants, as for Catholics, God created inequality and kingdoms to enforce it. Inequality was everywhere: clerics v laymen, lords v freemen v serfs, masters v slaves, men v women. Everyone had a place in a divinely ordained hierarchy. As Luther put it:

An earthly kingdom cannot exist without inequality of persons. Some must be free, some serfs, some rulers, some subjects.

And of course the masses needed to be strictly controlled:- Church and State — Symbiosis


                                           I have read so much about the Abrahamic religions, none of which is good,

                                                   - They have rose to power by force , and imposing fear -


                                                                       Hope is this is Changing

                                                                ♥

            Homosexuals, queer, and transgender people have been widely persecuted throughout much of history,

                                           particularly after the founding of the Abrahamic religions.


However, there are bright spots in history where queer sexuality and transgenderism have been celebrated as a natural part of the human experience. Most of these periods are from eras in non-Western cultures and took place before colonization and Christianization, both of which are forces that almost exclusively led to anti-homosexual beliefs in the colonized and Christianized populations.

As of 2005, estimates classified 54% (3.6 billion people) of the world’s population as adherents of an Abrahamic religion, about 32% as adherents of other religions, and 16% as adherents of no organized religion. Christianity claims 33% of the world’s population, Islam has 21%, Judaism has 0.2%

We know from the Bible, however, that around 2500 BC (4,500 years ago) the worldwide Flood reduced the world population to eight people.3 But if we assume that the population doubles every 150 years, we see, again, that starting with only Noah and his family in 2500 BC, 4,500 years is more than enough time for the present population to reach 6.5 billion.- answersingenesis.org

                                            -We all choose what to believe-

   FACT: Between 1959 and 1999, just 40 years

   the human population doubled from 3 billion to 6 billion - humanorigins.si.edu

Pan teaching his eromenos, the shepherd Daphnis, to play the pan flute, Roman copy of Greek original c. 100 BCE, found in Pompeii,

 excerpt from page 68 " Greek Ethics "


" At the same time, there can be no reasonable doubt that the
artistic temperament of the Greeks had something to do with its
wide diffusion and many sided development. Sensitive to
every form of loveliness, and unrestrained by moral or religious
prohibition, they could not fail to be enthusiastic for that
corporeal beauty, unlike all other beauties of the human form,
which marks male adolescence no less triumphantly than does
the male soprano voice upon the point of breaking. The power
of this corporeal loveliness to sway their imagination by its
unique aesthetic charm is abundantly illustrated in the passages
which I have quoted above from the Charmides of Plato and
Xenophon's Symposium. An expressive Greek phrase, " Youths
in their prime of adolescence, but not distinguished by a special
beauty/' recognises the persuasive influence, separate from
that of true beauty, which belongs to a certain period of
masculine growth. The very evanescence ol this "bloom of
youth" made it in Greek eyes desirable, since nothing more
clearly characterises the poetic myths which adumbrate their
special sensibility than the pathos of a blossom that must fade.
When distinction of feature and symmetry of form were added
to this charm of youthfolness, the Greeks admitted, as true
artists are obliged to do, that the male body displays harmonies
of proportion and melodies of outline more comprehensive, more
indicative of strength expressed in terms of grace, than that of
women."

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Yet for myself the mechanics of Greek pederasty " , wouldn't have been Ideal for myself ,as I am very much a more as a " Sexual Invert " , in that I have always desired to be much more like a girl, I am very feminine especially concerning my sexual identity . -me