I do believe Transsexuals most likely are a mix of both, and I do disagree with → Blanchard';
Yet as a generalization, the 2 type framework is base point.
♦Dr Blanchard's theory's main flaw is the black-and-whiteness of his definitions,
♦Confusing of cause and effect: While it is convenent to divide transsexuals into two simple categories, the reality, is more complex. As discussed later in this analysis, it is not only possible but probably quite common for high levels of childhood femininity to be the reason for autogynephilia.
In this context, a boy may have strong feminine leanings but suppresses them to avoid rejection by parents and peers, a fact that is not acknowledged by Dr Blanchard and advocates of his hypotheses.
♦Not all feminine people are stereotypical: Another aspect of Dr Blanchard's theory that fails to ring true is the sexism of his definitions. His autogynephilia tests include questions regarding occupation. The tests imply that homosexual-type transsexuals tend towards hairdressing, entertainment (ie. drag shows) secretarial/office and sex work.
(1 )Non-homosexual transsexuals (MtoF) remain attracted sexually to females.
(2) Homosexual transsexuals (MtoF) are mainly attracted to Straight men, and Desire to be in Female role sexually (this is the type transsexual I identify as myself ) see Rod Fleming's site- allabouthsts.com
What ever type one may be; First and Foremost it is a " State of Mind ", whether one has surgery,dresses
like the a female (opposite sex) etc. doesn't matter, they have to be respected for the condition they are in,
and not be judged by it. I am transsexual from standpoint of I wish only to be in " Female Role ", sure I desire to have surgery, not to have a penis, look as female like as possible with a vulva, yet whether or not
it happens is another thing. So in essense Transsexualism is the " desire to be "
" And if the most beautiful female(str8) and I were stranded on a island together, and became great friends,
we would both long for a good man to get washed up on the beach , and take us both sexually " -me
Another way to see it ↓
For myself, it is much more " natural " and non-homosexual for me having sex in female role with a non-homosexual man, verse having sex with a female, which is a lot more like a homosexual act, simply put " for me to have sex with a female is being " homosexual " . Or to have sex with a homosexual male is being " homosexual ", thus, I am only attracted to non-homosexual men, which seems like a non-homosexual act on my part,,,,simply the way my brain works, and always has.And for a non-homosexual man,I need to be lady-like for him.- me
Yet I am also not attracted other transsexuals
And even tricky for myself, as I like to dress female like for men , yet to define my role as Fem-male, for most part, and just always liked wearing dresses, garter / thigh highs in order to help me feel feminine, yet very much attracted to select Str8 men
so I can be in female sexual role for them.
-Views on Pre-op verse Post-op genital confirmation surgery for transgender persons-
Typically, pre-op is used to refer to a trans person who has not had genital surgery.
With that said, the idea of a trans person being either pre-op or post-op is troubling, at best. Why?
Pre-op/post-op implies that getting an operation is somehow a defining characteristic of a trans person. It is not. I was a woman before I had a single surgery. I was a woman before I even realized that I was a woman. The surgeries I have had haven't made me more of a woman. Instead, they are tools that help me live my life with less gender dysphoria and more social ease.
My facial feminization surgery (FFS) allowed me to live, work, and interact socially as someone who is perceived as a woman. Most of the visual cues we use to assign a gender to someone can be found on our faces.
Breast implants made it easier for people to see a woman's body underneath my clothes. With a typical woman's secondary sex characteristics, I was also able to experience sexuality as a woman.
Genital surgery has allowed me to look in the mirror in the morning and see a body that is configured just like any other woman's body. I am no longer a woman with unusual anatomy. I am a woman who looks like a typical woman. I can't fully express how liberating that is.
In Eve Ensler's The Vagina Monologues, there is a monologue where trans women talk about their experiences, especially their experiences after having genital surgery. One of my favorite lines is, "a wrong has been righted." I was in three productions of The Vagina Monologues before I had my bottom surgery. When I woke the morning after my surgery, I looked down at my crotch, and I finally understood that line. "A wrong has been righted."
For me, multiple surgeries were medically necessary to ease my gender dysphoria. Other trans folks can ease their dysphoria without certain surgeries, or with none at all. Other trans people can't afford the surgeries that are necessary for them. Other trans people cannot get these major surgeries for various medical reasons.
Note: As terminology, the terms 'pre-op', 'post-op' and 'non-op' have fallen out of favor. What follows is, in part, a discussion of why.
The terms pre-op, post op, and non-op come from an era where thinking on transgender individuals assumed that genital surgery would always be a part of transition. Pre-op referred to transgender individuals who had not yet had genital surgery, post-op referred to transgender individuals who had already had genital surgery.
Within the community, both from the medical provider side and the transexual community, there was a sense that people who were 'non-op' (that did not want to ever have genital surgery) weren't really transexual, but were instead something else. This kind of thinking was significantly detrimental to a significant portion of the transgender population who (for whatever reasons) don't seek genital surgery.
This method of thinking enforced notions of a required gender binary, and the notion that a trans person wasn't 'complete' if they hadn't had "the operation." It also created a divide in how people would rationalize the treatment of trans* individuals by cisgender individuals. (The often shouted: "I don't have to acknowledge this person's gender because they haven't had the operation yet" load of garbage.)
Sadly, we still see some of that thinking today. The idea that people aren't "trans enough" if they don't want genital surgery or that their gender isn't valid unless they've had it. It's arguably dehumanizing in that it distills a trans* person's identity, validity and gender down to what's in their pants. Some trans* people still find utility in the term and that it describes their personal lived experience and their view of gender, and they self identify as such. In a broader social context however, the terms are falling out of favor.
If you’re pre-op, it means you haven’t had any gender affirming surgery. Post-op is the opposite. However, you shouldn’t say every trans person who hasn’t had surgery is pre op because not every trans person wants to have surgery
For myself as a , Homosexual transsexual type, (HSTS) I relate very much to following ;
In The Man Who Would Be Queen, J. Michael Bailey (2003) wrote that the homosexual transsexuals he studied are comfortable with prostitution, and that they have a masculine sexual appetite, but are attracted to men. He reviewed evidence for a taxonomy according to which there are two forms of transsexualism in males, one that is an extreme type of homosexuality and one that is an expression of a paraphilia known as autogynephilia. In The Transsexual Phenomenon (1966), Harry Benjamin writes that "Other transsexuals find prostitution a useful profession for emotional as well as practical reasons...":50–51 Benjamin goes on to say "How much more can his femininity be reaffirmed than by again and again attracting normal, heterosexual, and unsuspecting men and even being paid for rendering sex service as a woman?"
Except in context of (clearly telling them I was a Fem-male) ; "How much more can my femininity be reaffirmed than by again and again attracting normal, heterosexual men, and asking them to "please treat me like a "Lady", cause I want to feel as one,be as one, often
nearly begging them to have their cock up in my bottom ejaculating ". And as often as they could find the time,asking them to tell their friends about me. thus a " prostitutional type role ", so men would have sex with me,
in my female role, to help me feel " Lady-like " When I have a man's penis up inside me, I feel very "Lady-like "
Thus for myself, in 1998, it was very clearly defined to me psychologically, because once , the very first moment,
the very first man that pulled his hard cock out ,asked me to suck it, I wanted it so bad, it is hard to explain, and once his cock was in my mouth, I knew this was the Role meant for me, then once he slid his cock up in me and began ejaculating, I simply knew I wanted only the female sexual role, thus I began to dress in ways, to a higher degree , to show how sexually feminized I am for men. Yet my main role is sexually pleasuring a man, and my feminization comes from his sexually taking me in the female role, and for myself due circumstances, setting at time etc. a man whom was routinely using me for sex, could share me with his friends if I consented, and approved them, this was very emasculating for me, cause it showed me he was proud enough of me as a object of his sexual desire, he could see me perform for his friends, then these friends could start using me for sexual pleasure,then share me as well, believe me at the end of the week in those days, I wanted to have had sex with as many men as was possible.And being self-employed made it much easier to take the time to see them when time was right.
Thus for myself there are only three basic options; 1. be celibate, which I have been last 14 years
2. be in partnership like " Terrace "
3. form a " indigo group "
Autogynephilic and HomoSexual MtF in Asia -rodfleming.com
All male-to-feminine (MtF) trans are EITHER homosexual (exclusively attracted to men from childhood-me) or non-homosexual (not exclusively attracted to men from childhood.) The latter are commonly known as autogynephilic. This distinction is obvious and has been observed since the 19th century. It is recognised as fundamental by all serious scientists working in the field.
Homosexual Transsexuals (HSTS) exhibit a cluster of trait characteristics in addition to their sexual desire for men.
They tend to be small, delicately built, light for their height, ← (I don't agree,that's very much stereotyping / and assuming a natural biological factor 1) naturally feminine and neotenous. They have intense difficulty learning to be masculine, if they ever do. Non-homosexual trans exhibit no such clustering; in fact they conform to the averages for men of their ethnicity and are attracted to women.
The explanation for HSTS is easy and has never been disputed: they desire men and are feminine, so to attract men, whom they know to be attracted to femininity, they make themselves more feminine. Again none of this is true of non-homosexuals; so why on earth might it be that a man, who is not attracted to or seeking to attract men, would want to appear to be feminine? rodfleming.com
1 - I believe I was pre-disposed to be transsexual, simply because I was dressing secretly in panty hose, and sucking other males penis near my age, as far back in memory (age 6), then when puberty happened, I very much only desired to be in female sexual role. A dilemma I have felt, yet at same time will and can not ever know is ; Due to fact that my two friends took me completely 100% in the female role, where gentle, kind, yet at same time profoundly emasculating me, especially due to the anal penetration, and swallowing their semen, and fact I loved it !, thus concreted my sexual identity as female roled only ?
I know since that time, I never know a time when I have not greatly wanted that role, to permanently be in.
How I relate to "HSTS" homosexual male to female trans.
♦ I knew who I was attracted to sexually by age 13,and knew in my heart I wanted to be like the girls, yet soon felt ashamed,even today..I feel as a failure and fight that feeling
♦ I have never desired to be masculine, only have desired to be feminine
♦ Have since soon after being married, my desire to be in female role for a man or men, was growing stronger, more and more wanted to feel feminine, needed a man to femininize me.
♦ Very much wanted to a "girly-boy" again,like when 13, wanted so much to feel a man's penis up
inside me again.
♦ Not until 1998 would I finally get to be a Str8 man's " girly-boyfriend again, but believe me I was
so ready !, when he finally was sliding his penis up inside me, it was one of greatest psychological
feelings I ever had, a mix of my male sexuality dissolving, realizing my true identity,feeling so
Feminine and psychologically being 100% emasculated in a the female role sexually. Never again would I ever consider being like a man sexually,to have sex as though I where a man, I can no longer even comprehend.
♦ Soon my want to be physically 100% emasculated- vulvoplasty surgery,to remove my penis and have female looking vulva , to match the way I felt sexually/self image, and wanting my boyfriends
(as soon I was having sex with quite a few Str8 men routinely) to see I was fully dedicated to being a "Female roled male.
Show them, even though I might seem male on outside, on inside I am as female like as I can possibly be. note; I never desired to be identified as a "Female", yet always desired to identified as;
100% Female roled male, I asked my men to call me a "Fem-male"
" with a Capital F ", and now "Please Bone me good!"
♦ My desire to be feminine looking is from practical stand point of projecting to a Str8 man, that I am available sexually for him, and exclusively in the female role ;
"I want to perform fellatio on him,masturbate him,take his penis up in my bottom to be impregnated "
♦ I am very much available for him in a "postitutional" type role, on call to sexually pleasure him.
♦ Due to fact, it was known with my men, they and I both knew the role I was playing was a
prostitutional type role,once they were routinely seeing me, I would hint to them often,things like;
for example ,,,ask them " would you like to watch one of your friends fuck me ?", or tell them my fantasy was to get party-fucked by a group of horny hung Str8 20 year olds, this allowed me to get double teamed a lot by two men at once, and lead me to my "last man standing parties", where in a very controlled setting, I'd get gang-banged by 50-60 str8 men throughout course of day and night.
One of the biggest things for me to over-come was and still is ;
"The constant Shaming/condemning by religions "
A statement I made to a Christian group;
I think I am very good at being very feminine and lady like for a Real Man, maybe because I've had to try harder to sexual pleasure,to be feminine, so they would keep seeing me.? and I swallow :)
few excerpts from HSTS above ;
"transgender homosexual males not only desire men, they desire to play the role of women, to men. In other words, they are receptive in sex. In addition, they tend to desire to be protected by their partners and to be submissive socially as well as sexually. They are looking, in a partner, for a strong, conventionally masculine personality, to whom they will submit in bed and defer in society. In females, the opposite holds true".
"Once you were through puberty, this just got stronger. Performing as a boy in society was next to impossible for you, a torture. Your sexual desire — always powerful in adolescent boys — was now fixed on the idea of being penetrated, being the submissive partner. You might have thought you were a ‘gay boy’ and may have experimented sexually with ‘frotting’, fingering and even being penetrated, with other boys, perhaps transgender homosexuals like yourself or maybe straight boys who just wanted to have sex. But these encounters did not slake your thirst, even if you enjoyed them. You wanted a man, not a boy and especially not a ‘gay boy’ whom you recognised as being as much a girl as you were."
(even at 13, I was wanting very much older men, big cocks they had)
"The ‘gay scene’ held no attraction for you, you thought it an ugly, sex-obsessed meat market. You dreamed of a nice man who treated you well, a nice house and maybe even, if he already had kids, of being their stepmother."
" In Blanchard, HSTS are never bisexual; one is either homosexual or nonhomosexual."
"Homosexual transsexualism, or HSTS, has a recorded history as long as writing itself, from 6,000 years ago and before. It is the natural end point of the developmental scale of human homosexuality. Today, we recognise that homosexuality is an innate sexuality, that is, it’s not learned or ‘socialised’.
Because it is innate, we should expect to find homosexuality across all human cultures at all times and this we do. It is mentioned – often negatively, in many ancient texts like the Bible, the Hindu texts, the Koran and so on. There are numerous reports of it throughout history. Sometimes, as in Europe or where the writers were European, this has been negative. Elsewhere, records are more balanced in tone.
The close link between HSTS and homosexuality, together with the copious records, suggest that it too is a fundamental and intrinsic aspect of human nature. Despite often extreme social intolerance, then, HSTS has lived on throughout the ages of human culture. Its appearance in the West in recent decades should be seen not as a new phenomenon but as the reappearance of a natural part of the human condition that had been suppressed, for centuries, by brutal, often lethal violence, frequently promoted by religion."
As an aside, if you are used to having anal sex with a woman, you are in for a surprise. It is the author’s experience, and that of other men whom he has interviewed, that an HSTS’ anus can be much tighter than a woman’s. Indeed, a famous Roman, (name) on being challenged by his wife for mounting his boy slaves when she had an anus too, is reputed to have said, ‘No, my dear; you have two vaginas.’ The Romans evidently knew a thing o two about this.
(I know, my men loved the tightness of my bottom))
Pre-op HSTS can be divided into two groups: those who like to have their penises sucked and played with and those who do not(me). Men should find out what their partner’ preference is before touching it. If she doesn’t like it, stay away from it.
Remember: HSTS want straight, not homosexual men and your lover may be testing you. It is not at all uncommon for a girl to ditch a lover for having displayed too much interest in her penis. Ask yourself why you want to play with what is, after all, another male organ. If you’re only interested in that, then perhaps you would be better having sex with another man and accepting your homosexuality. If you’re only doing it because she wants you to, then that’s a different case. But it is relatively rare to find an HSTS who wants to be fellated — or at least, who will admit it.
Yes, it is absolutely possible for an HSTS to climax using only anal stimulation. This is normal. The popular myth that ‘an anus is not a sex organ so orgasms are impossible’ displays complete ignorance. In fact, the prostate gland, which sits at the base of the penis and is responsible for producing about 90% of ejaculate, is extremely sensitive to massage and stimulating it in the right way will provoke massive orgasms in the individual.
Few points at Rod Fleming's allabouthsts.com site " what is hsts " I relate to / identify with ;
♦ A transgender homosexual will transition if his or her transition desire is stronger than his or her fear of the consequences of transition. Further, they will only transition if they believe they can ‘pass’, that is, be able to live, unremarked, in their desired gender.
♦ Especially for males, transgender homosexuals have a a limited time. If they do not transition by around the age of twenty, they may not be able to at all, since the masculinisation being effected on their bodies by testosterone may make it impossible for them to ‘pass’. Sadly, it appears to be the end of certain commenters, including some claiming to be professionals, to ensure exactly this: that transgender homosexuals are prevented from transitioning until it is too late.
♦ In Blanchard, ‘homosexuals’ are ‘exclusively attracted to same-sex from childhood’. Nonhomosexual is everyone else. There is no ‘bisexual’ classification. All transitioners — indeed, all of us — are either homosexual or nonhomosexual by this measure. It is an on-off switch. However, this conflicts with what we know of Sexual Inversion. (for myself I define it as the mental state of always " wanting to be
in the female role sexually for a Man,and having him make me feel Lady-like )-me
♦ From the point of view of a person who thinks he or she might be HSTS, understanding the nature of Sexual Inversion, that it is innate and cannot be reversed and that the simplest and kindest solution is to follow it to its natural conclusion, transition, is the lesson to take from this. While many such individuals will be comfortable with hormonal and social transition, for some, full surgical transition is necessary.
( for myself the " vulvoplasty type surgery " has only been a great desire,and the high degree of feminisation that offers )
♦ Sexually inverted young people and those who care for them, today are bombarded by conflicting advice. An unholy alliance of religious conservatives, feminists and conforming ‘gays’ has come together in the ‘Gender Critical Movement’ which is determined to shut down all transition. This is clearly abusive and is happening for obviously political reasons, with no thought for the individuals concerned. On the other hand, enthusiasts are guilty of encouraging transition at far too early an age and without anything like sufficient rigour. The individual and his or her family and professional helpers must find a way through this minefield.
And must become as educated as must as possible, prior to ever making any set decisions- me
What mainly defines me as " Transsexual ", third-gender, female-roled-male, is life time longing not to have a penis, and be a Man's ;
and having no desire to be like a male sexually
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ♦ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal I don't relate to this type person as far as traits,
as I am highly homosexual /highly female psychosexually
Perhaps more importantly, however, Blanchard identified another group that was presenting in significant numbers. This group he found puzzling. The people in it were older. They were not in any way feminine or effeminate and they had extreme difficulty ‘passing’ as women. They were overwhelmingly white, with middle-class, professional backgrounds who had been successful in their careers. In addition, they were nearly always married and usually had children. Frequently these last were at the point of becoming independent. Most importantly, however, these individuals were never attracted to men, at least prior to transition.
This dichotomy had been observed before, since the time of Magnus Hirschfeld, but nobody had been able to explain what was going on. Blanchard HSTS were easy to understand: they are socially, sexually, romantically and behaviourally women. It really is that simple. They may not be women in a biological sense but in every other way, that is what they are.
The second group was not like that and their profile was much more difficult to describe. These individuals were sexually, socially, romantically and behaviourally men as well as being biological males. Thy could not have been more different from the HSTS profile. Blanchard argued that the root cause of their condition must reside in their male sexuality, since they clearly could not have a female one.
This observation, backed up by statistical surveys and questionnaires, led Blanchard to the discovery that the most important such factor in this second group was their attraction to themselves, as women. This allowed him to formulate a testable hypothesis:
‘Autogynephilia is a man’s propensity to be attracted to himself, as a woman.’
Fundamentally, this remains unchallenged science. However, other researchers have highlighted differences in the profiles of the AGPs they studied, from the Blanchard model. This probably means that there is significant cultural overlay on the basic condition, which is already complex.
Looking at the situation in Asia, where most AGPs present with markedly different profiles from the West, tends to confirm this. So while the attraction of the subject to the idea of being a woman remains the underlying motivation, the precise manner in which this may be satisfied is remarkably varied.
Most people, including HSTS, are attracted to personalities outside the self: other people. AGPs are different: their primary objects of sexual attraction are themselves, but as women. Blanchard called this misdirection of sexual attraction an ‘Erotic Target Location Error’.
In the West, many men with this condition remain secret fetishistic cross dressers all their lives. Their visibility is directly related to social factors: the less acceptable it is for a man to wear women’s clothing, the more likely that they will keep their behaviour a secret. A great many go to their graves without their wives or children ever knowing the truth.
This means that a second personality must be created by the subject, to fall in love with. Typically this appears soon after the onset of the condition.
This second personality grows within the mind of the subject. It was created as an object of desire and has been nourished through rewarding behaviour, often for decades. It may become so powerful that it overwhelms the male personality that invented it. At this point the subject becomes intensely uncomfortable with being a man and feels a need to transition.
In the West this typically happens in in middle age; it was overwhelmingly the case when Blanchard was researching autogynephilia. The results can be catastrophic. The wife of such an individual may be told she must ‘become a lesbian’ by the man she married. However he is not really the man she married but a secret personality he has been developing for decades. The man she married is effectively dead, his personality swamped.
The classic, late-transitioning Western AGP remains a man in every sense except that of appearance. His attraction to women remains exactly the same as a hetero-normative male’s.
This ‘classic’ profile accounts for some 60% or more of AGPs. However, Blanchard identified two other sexual desires.
The first he termed ‘analloerotic’. Sometimes these indivuiduals are misrepresented as ‘asexual;’ but this is simplistic. Analloerotics are unable to derive sexual pleasure from their genitalia. Instead they get it from such things as using women’s toilets, from ‘dressing parties’, which are frequently advertised in the media targeting AGPs; and from knitting and other stereotypically ‘women’s’ roles. Here the reward that feeds the autogynephilia is social acceptance as women.
The other group of AGPs identified by Blanchard he called ‘bisexual’. Like the others, prior to transition, these men have no sexual interest in other men. However, once they begin hormone therapy and begin to feminise, these individuals explore being women in a more challenging environment. For them, going out in public dressed in women’s clothes is not enough. They need to be sexually desired by men.
This is an extension of their autogynephilia, in which the person they have created must be taken, not just socially but also sexually, as a woman. Blanchard called this phenomenon ‘pseudo-bisexuality’. The individuals in this group often elect to have GRS, but not always. There is a significant number of sex workers in the West who conform to this type. Many of their male clients are also AGP .
Another path that AGPs may follow to assuage their autogynephilia is through competition against natal women. Mianne Bagger, for example was the first transwoman golfer. More concerning is Fallon Fox, who became an MMA fighter after transitioning. Success in these fields satisfies the autogynephilia through the fantasy of being ‘accepted’ as women — though quite how using a man’s physique to beat the pulp out of natal women can be tolerated is unimaginable; well, if you’re not persuaded by the Post-Modernist bunk of ‘Identity Politics’.
A more civilised form of competition — or at least one less likely to cause physical harm — is in beauty pageants and modelling. This is hugely popular across Asia and elsewhere and HSTS and AGP transsexuals compete with each other on all fours– and the AGPs often win.
Even more interestingly, perhaps, is a phenomenon seen in Italy and Spain. Both are well known destinations of South American travesti, or transsexual prostitutes. Many of these advertise through websites like Arcaton or Distintas, which categorise escorts as ‘travesti’ or ‘women’. Only a minority have GRS but if they do, they will immediately remove all trace of their former selves and re-appear, as women prostitutes. They then compete directly with women for male clientèle.
Such avenues are closed to the majority of Western AGPs because they transition so late. By the time they do, they are thoroughly masculinised physically; they can never hope to pass as women, far less compete with them in physical beauty. Furthermore, their youthful socialisation has given them no training in how to act like a woman, so not only do they look like men, they act like them.
However, in the decades since Blanchard defined autogynephilia, much has changed. Even in the West, autogynephiles are presenting much younger and can be extremely attractive (if tall.) Dutch model Kelly van der Veer and Canadian Jenna Talakova come to mind. Or what about Bianca (below)? Is she HSTS or AGP?
The fact is that autogynephilia is an enormously complicated and disparate phenomenon which science still has much to learn about. What is not in doubt is that it is real and it is the stimulus for an unknown percentage, possibly a majority, of male-to-female transitions.
non-homosexual trans type
Kristin Beck - navy seal is non-homosexual trans.
Bruce “Caitlyn” Jenner
Western autogynephiles ( non homosexual trans)and their sycophants, on the other hand, loathe Blanchard and his theory and do everything they can to deny the science and spread misinformation, because they do not wish it to be known that their ‘gender identity’ is a function of a misdirected sex drive...….? I do see this as a issue-me
Early onset transsexualism is usually an extreme form of homosexuality. 90% of early onset male to female transsexuals were gay men before they transitioined, so after transition, they remain attracted to men. Nearly all early onset female to male transsexuals were lesbians before they transitioned. After they transition, they remain attracted to women. Heterosexual early-onset transsexuals are rare, especially among women. In the older literature, early onset male to female transsexuals are referred to as Classic Transsexuals.
Late onset male to female transsexualism is probably related to autogynophilia and is almost certainly not organic. In the older literature, these people are called Fetishistic Transsexuals. Autogynophilia is a paraphilia that is developmental as all paraphilias are. These men are turned on sexually by the image of themselves as a woman. Bruce/Caitlin Jenner is almost certainly this type of transsexual.
However, these men differ from traditional fetishistic transvestites in many ways, as they have cross-dressed more and for longer, and they are much more likely to see themselves as women.
Of late onset male to female or Fetishistic transsexuals, 1/3 are gay, 1/3 are bisexual, and 1/3 are straight. Oddly enough, many late onset male to female transsexuals have been extremely masculine in their lives before they became transsexual.- quora.com
My guess is this person was not " Homosexually transgender" prior to surgery, say as Bruce Jenner, Kristin Beck and likely felt
feminine in some non-sexual way, thus imagining only the desire to appear as female, turned on by the image of themselves looking female like, yet lacking the need to be in sexual role with a man ,as a female. A good mix for failure.
And the difference between why I desire to appear Feminine, and the non-homosexual , can clearly be hard to navigate.
Yet quite clear, if ask one simply question, " Who am I desiring to look Feminine for , my partner, or my self ? "
"I clearly want to look feminine for my partner, or to attract, then keep a partner "
Just as a Normal heterosexual female does, maybe even more !
Rod Flemings points out some very important aspects of being " Trans "
I have always loved Flying, and have at times desired to be a Flight Attendent, dress like above, showing that I am clearly a ;
Third-gender / Fem-male type, don't identify as Male or Female but as;
" Fem-male "
( which in my case 100% female sexually roled )
At least in my opinion ; For transgender people to be accepted, they must be social defined, as distinct and different, the role of
Flight Attendent is good start;
Where there Airlines have clearly defined ; Male attendents , Female attendents, and Third-gender attendents
At aprox; 2:38, talks of a idea similar to my thoughts of being attracted to same sex, and in a transgender/sexual aspect. as well as he goes on to say how being bi-sexual would forfeit the Trust that a fully emasculated fem-male would have, like myself , being bi-sexual is not a option, and very much against my own ethics, I can only be in female role and a only with a Man who can only be in male role. Just my own selection, yet any male whom identified himself as bi-sexual, I would not see!, I think this kept things safer to.
As well, I think it so important to know that the fully emasculated fem-male, truly is , thus in ritual way, if the females see watch as the males have sex with me in my female role , then everybody knows, affirms my role, the females know there is not danger of me making sexual advances toward them, kind of a rites of passage, confirmation, as well as everybody knows the males can and do use me for sexual pleasure as need be.
And say I lived in clan of 200 individuals, and say there where two Fem-males for all the mating age males to have sex with.
For example by 1999, it safe to say there were at least 50 men I possibly had a chance of maybe seeing at any given time , so say come monday morning, 1 guy may call, or 20 all wanting blow-job, or to bone me (quickies), if it was more then 5, I take the day off see them all, and then call a some of the other men and tell them I was taking the day off , and was available. Never Knew what might come to be .
excerpts from ↑ ; The writer is unknown, I just happened upon this .
The crucial point to understand here is that the trauma of humiliation does not need to come from abuse (although it may do), but from a person's sense of self.
Therefore, both highly feminine and fairly masculine transsexuals can experience similar levels of emasculation trauma as children.
A number of factors may cause this feeling of emasculation. Again, it must be stressed that it is not the young person's reality but the perception of their reality that matters in this context.
There is no doubt that young males can be traumatized when their sense of emasculation is intense enough; when they feel they are irrevocably unable to measure up as males. This depends as much on "where the line is drawn" in what constitutes acceptable masculine behavior in their environment as their actual levels of actual masculinity or femininity.
Due to continuing patriarchal attitudes it is still a serious social "crime" in many modern societies for a male to fail to "measure up" as such, with punishments consisting of ridicule, abuse, exclusion, rejection, assault and, in extreme cases, murder.
So what causes these feelings of emasculation?
Emasculation trauma can, of course, be the result of as the boy being, in fact, hyper-feminine - but in denial, or feeling negatively, about the way he is. One could say that such a boy feels emasculated for good reason - he really does not measure up to the typical male standards he encounters."Hyper-feminine" in this context refers to boys whose feminine qualities are obvious enough to be noticed by others, generally in a negative manner. Those feminine qualities may include androgynous appearance, girlish voice and manner of speaking, feminine mannerisms, typically feminine interests, crossdressing, dislike of rough behavior, preference for girls' company, high levels of sensitivity / emotionality, romantic interest in boys, and so on. These attributes may be present in varying degrees in individuals. By the same token, many boys who are targeted as overly feminine by parents and/or their peers may only possess some, or just one, of those attributes.
Not that hyper-feminine boys will necessarily feel traumatized by their lack of masculinity. Several factors may insulate them, such as support from understanding parents, relatives or peers (ie. a non-phobic and/or cosmopolitan environment), strong self-belief or confidence, insulating philosophical belief systems and advanced social skills.
Nor will the nature of the trauma necessarily be emasculatory. For example, a hyper-feminine boy who is bolstered by some of the above insulating factors, may still be traumatized by violence, rejection and/or bullying he experiences. In this case, the trauma may lead to other disorders, such as PTSD, anxiety/depression and disorders related to poor self-esteem such as hysterical, narcissistic and borderline personality disorders.
Emasculation trauma will generally occur if the boy is in denial about his femininity; he will be especially be susceptible to such denial if his parents suffer from denial, that is, see him "though rose colored glasses". Without the benefit of an accurate "mirror", the child may develop a distorted self-image.
Certain personality types may also hope (realistically or otherwise) that they can change themselves (to "fool them all"), and will attempt to change themselves in order to better fit in. Such individuals may well experience mid-life crises, as is common with many non-transsexual people who profoundly shape themselves in youth to societal or other expectations at the expense of genuine self-expression.
A number of pertinent articles in this regard written by Dr Daniel Wegner examine the effects of denial and thought suppression (but in a general sense, not related to transsexualism), in particular, note his treatise on "The hidden costs of hidden stigma".
The more sensitive the boy, the less negative stimuli is needed to evoke intense feelings of emasculation. Further, other traumas may sensitize a child whose sensitivity would otherwise be in the normal range. Family conflict, deaths in the family, separation of parents, abuse and so on may lead to anxiety and a hair-trigger reaction to stress. In these cases, emasculating experiences which would be seen as relatively mild may be experienced as traumatic.
It should be noted that, logically, there is no definite line to be drawn between feminine and non-feminine boys; there are no objective measures in relation to masculinity and femininity.
For example, which boy is more feminine? A small, slender, pretty, high voiced boy with feminine mannerisms who is athletic, has a forceful nature, and prefers playing with other boys - or a larger, physically masculine boy who is soft, bookish, emotional, relationship-oriented and who eschews the rough and tumble of typical boys' games? Clearly this is a rhetorical question with no clear-cut answer.
Coping with emasculation trauma
Many boys feel inadequate as males at some stage during their formative years, experiencing embarrassment when they fail to live up to some exaggerated standard of masculinity they may encounter. It is all a matter of degree - how intense the feelings are and how long they persist.
So how does a boy cope with feeling emasculated to the point of trauma - be it due to a traumatic event or because of regular experiences occurring over an extended period? Importantly, in many cases he will feel this not something he can talk about - with anyone at any time - so he is on his own. This is especially the case for those who were children before the advent of the Internet.
Lacking in life experience, he may wonder if everyone feels as he does, so he may overcompensate, trying to be as rough and tough as he can be - just like his peers. Many transsexuals report that, in earlier years, they deliberately embarked on hyper-masculine careers like the military in order to normalize themselves.
Whether the boy feels it is possible or feasible to attempt to be masculine and "fit in" not only depends on his actual level of masculinity or femininity, but also on how realistically he perceives himself, how fearful he is of stigma, and his resilience and hopefulness. Parents play an important part in this equation, for if they are uninvolved, neurotic/psychotic or in denial, they may hinder their child's ability to realistically understand himself.
One means of relieving trauma is to repeat it, to embrace it, to own it, to control it - just like the masochist who seeks out abuse or the molested girl who becomes promiscuous.
A boy suffering emasculation trauma may give up the masculine ideal as a lost cause. Some may behave in an exaggeratedly camp manner as a form of rebellion. Ironically, while this approach may create more problems socially in the short term, the act of relinquishing any attempt at masculinity will ease a child's internal pressure, reducing the incidence of ironic effects caused by denial and suppression.
On the other hand, the boy may believe he can "fool" others in personal interactions. This will be the case if he is, in fact, capable of "passing" as a normal boy, or if he is denial about his levels of femininity. If he is in denial, he may "gloss over" repeated "hints" from others as to his true nature.
However, it is then likely that he will still be driven to embrace his perceived femininity (control his trauma) in private. This approach may involve crossdressing, thoughts of physical feminization or homo-erotic fantasy.
Dynamics such as these are the most likely roots of autogynephilia or, as it was known before the "A-word" became trendy, transvestic fetishism.
In short, whether a boy experiences emasculation trauma publicly or privately may well decide his level of fetishism.
This explains why the most extreme hyper-feminine boys tend to be less autogynephilic than other boys who experience emasculation trauma, because - if they are realistic - they realize that there is little chance of them being able to appear "normal" as males in the public arena. - Transsexual Analysis
Overview and summary
To answer the questions posed earlier:
The most likely answer to these questions needs to be made in two parts, for each of the types.
Emasculation trauma, which very likely has a large bearing on autogynephilic behavior, can affect young males who may be extremely feminine mentally and/or emotionally (as per standard human diversity).
In the case of homosexual/androphilic transsexuals, it would be fair to say that the very most feminine examples of these people make the change because it was impossible for them to find any male role in which they did not feel inadequate or ridiculous. After much rejection they essentially change over in order to gain greater social acceptance as human beings.
The main danger for such individuals is that male development can occur even up to age 20 or so, and some very small and unmasculine youths, without hormonal intervention, may eventually grow tall and bulk up. In a more tolerant social environment, these people may find more acceptance as gay males than in the past, although their choice of partners will tend to be limited by the strong emphasis in the gay community towards classic masculine physical beauty.
Hyper-feminine boys can experience problems described by both homosexual and autogynephilic transsexuals (to use Dr Blanchard's terminology). Parental denial may lead such children to deny their basic natures leading to internal pressures. In the face of both internal and external assaults such individuals may present with considerable psychopathology.
Ultimately, the existence of an autogynephilic or transvestic history should be no bar to a sex change applicant being given the go-ahead for a sex change. The bottom line must always be a decided on the basis of whether transition will improve the patient's wellbeing and functioning in society.
Some males who are quite masculine by nature can also experience emasculation trauma (with subsequent autogynephilic feelings), believing themselves unable to live up to the model of masculinity they encountered as children - due to their social environment and/or traumatic/sensitizing events.
It has been reported that up to 90% of males who ask their doctors for treatment for gender identity order (GID), at some stage change their minds and discontinue treatment. It would be safe to say that most of these would be reasonably masculine autogynephilic males who find the female role uncomfortable or difficult to fulfil.
Cognitive treatment for GID should include a focus on that sense of childhood emasculation, that is, the reasons why the patient seeks a sex change, as opposed to being a gay man or crossdresser.
The aim in treatment should not be changing the person's mind so much as raising self-awareness and helping to explore feelings.
If this exploration leads to a change of heart, then such self-knowledge may help the patient find a life path more suited to him/her. If the patient wishes to continue treatment s/he will at least have a better understanding of his/her needs and desires and perhaps be motivated to work towards less dependence on cross-gender behavior for happiness. Whatever, once people "face their demons", they are in a better position to make informed decisions.
Due to stigma, false morality, ignorance, and a failure to understand risk management principles, there is a widely-held belief that sex changes are wrong per se, and that therapists should try to talk gender reassignment applicants out of making the change. Some some therapists do, in fact, take a watered-down version of this approach, only recommending patients for surgery if they determinedly resist this subtle coercion and succeed in the 2-year real life test.
This win-or-lose "gatekeeper" approach only serves to undermine meaningful treatment of any underlying problems. It may at times raise competitive or rebellious instincts in sex change applicants, who are already oversensitized to judgmental attitudes, almost encouraging them to "prove the therapist wrong".
Many observers believe that transsexualism should be avoided at all costs and that therapy should be targeted towards either diverting androphilic types towards life as gay men and more masculine "heterosexual" autogynephilic types to recognize and embrace their masculinity. Given the issue of emasculation trauma, the only possible "cure" for transsexualism would be the complete removal of stigmas in relation to sexuality and differentiated social gender expression.
While these may be laudable goals, unfortunately they are not achievable in the short, or even the medium term, if at all. It is therefore unrealistic and cruel to expect transsexuals to offer themselves to be sacrificed on the altar of ideology. Given that transsexuals comprise of at most 0.01% of the population, their role in changing the gender consciousness of the public at large is minimal.
There is a common view that the human body is sacred and that cosmetic surgical changes to it are wrong, immoral or tragic. When emotive words like "mutilation", "false" and "fake" are used to describe surgical changes to a person's body, this indicates that the speaker/writer subscribes to this "body is sacred" viewpoint.
An alternative viewpoint would be that our psyches and social roles are more "sacred" than our bodies, which are essentially carriages with which to do the bidding of our minds and emotions. For many gender reassignment applicants, their cross-gender needs are so ingrained from such an early age that is easier to, as Dr Harry Benjamin once put it, "to change the body to fit the mind".
There is no tragedy in a person choosing to modify his or her body surgically if it relieves psychological, emotional or existential problems and allows him or her to "get on with life" and move onto more productive activities rather than wasting it agonizing over gender, or other distracting, issues.
Finally, it should be said that changing sex is such an extraordinarily difficult enterprise that those who successfully traverse its many pitfalls and hardships, and end up relatively unscathed, may well be endowed with some extraordinary personal qualities for having survived the experience. It could even be said one needs to possess some extraordinary qualities to survive the experience intact.
We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if humanity is to survive - Albert Einstein
the following is a example of bad thinking
-masochistic emasculation theory-
" Another Stupid human idea "
in at least having anything to do with " Trans "
From research these are usually Str8 men whom need Women to humilate them.
I have never seen this trait show in any research about Transgender types, whether non-homosexual or homosexual
excerpt from ↑ ;
The use of emasculation to emasculate the transgender narrative is fascinating. What it does is… not only tell you that your desire to transition is the result of a fetish – but that, just in case you don’t care whether it’s a fetish or not – that you are mistaken about the fetish: you don’t have a fetish for being a woman….
…but a humiliated sissy of a man. I love to be !., yet it is not in a humilated sense - me
Therefore, not only do the obvious signs of emasculation betray your true desire (forced femenisation etc) but in fact any attraction to anything feminine. Yes, your desire to dress as a woman, your love of men, your desire for more feminine features… this has nothing to do with being transgender or a fetish for being a woman, but to do with your attraction to anything that symbolizes the failed man you are. And if you’re transgender and also have this fetish… the transgenderism is caused by a kind of infection… the fetish has leaked into your entire personality. ( I love it, this person clearly is trying to be mean, yet I did Fail as a Man, due to fact→ I don't want to be like a Man !!) - me
I will explain in a minute the fallacies that lie at the heart of this idea. First, though, I would like you to be shocked at the hateful nature of denying a transwoman even the offensive notion that she has a paraphiliia for being a woman… and saying she has a fetish for being a humiliated man. This, of all the indignities heaped upon transwomen has to be the most shocking of all time. But that is not all… their followers are so dedicated to reaching transwomen that they have started up dozens of fake reddit accounts to circumvent bans from moderators.
We all like a good debate… but the problem is that these theorists do not recognize the limitations of semiotics, and treat them as hard fact. Furthermore, they are committed to taking this debate out of their own private spaces – fetish websites – and actively shoving it in the face of transwomen. They want to make damn sure we know that our decision to risk everything on transition is the result of a fetish….
….for being a failed man.
Lots of this bullshit out there ↑
excerpt from ↑ I like because relates to The male post orgasmic minutes are called the refractory period. ;
" can be seen as a mini-hangover from the pleasure you just had. It is a period in which it’s physiologically impossible to have another orgasm (sorry, Sting!). A dopamine suppressing drug is produced called prolactin which is a bit like the opposite of cocaine. It puts you on a downer.
However, it’s more complex than that, because of course we all know the feeling of satisfaction we can experience after good sex. My personal belief is that your mood can go two ways depending on how you perceive what just happened… if you’re deep down, ashamed of cross gender fantasy, then the prolactin kicks in as a downer. If you just had great sex that makes you feel like a champion lover, the prolactin kicks in as a downer – but more of a relaxant.
The bottom line is… there are a whole lot of chemicals at play, and the fact you suddenly feel ashamed doesn’t tell you shit about whether you’re transgender or not. However, I have heard anecdotaly that when you stop being ashamed of cross gender fantasies – post orgasm – it’s a milestone on your merry way to full blown transsexualism.
( Personally I always had a feeling that was similar to shame and regret after I'd had sex with a female, even thinking to myself I don't want to do that ever again.
Once I started having sex with men in my female role in 1998, I have always felt great, it's felt exactly right, also even if I do ejaculate before my man does, I don't lose interest, he can continue to bone me as long as he needs, if I am getting double teamed, party- fucked, it does hinder my ability to let all the guys " bone " me, I lose no interest in sucking and swallowing their semen either, if I had unpleasant refractory periods, I would not be able to perform at " Last Man Standing " parties, as I normally would ejaculate 3 or 4 times during the course of the party )- me---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I came across this→ " ) Masochistic Emasculation Could Be a Healthy Emotional Outlet. It’s no secret that a large part of feminisation is masochistic emasculation. We enjoy being fucked, humiliated, called a slut, throat fucked and being treated as a cum dumpster.
first off for myself,,I like a few parts of above 1. being fucked 2. I don't mind if if a man respectfully calls me his " slut ".
the others No, I don't enjoy.-me
And I have no use for any of the bd/sm fetish stuff → As a defining trait of these individuals is the " need to be punished !"
I know quite clearly that " a large part of feminisation is masochistic emasculation is Not part of being Transgender
Gender Role Development
A exerpt from above " Travesti Kulick "
The kind of erotic play that Cintia describes here often leads to direct sexual activity at an early age. When I asked twenty-nine-year-old Elisabeth what her first memories were of not being like other boys, she replied:
Elisabeth: Ah, eu era de crian~a .. de crian~a mesmo, de pequeno mesmo, que eu gostava de ir com OS meninos, ne? Ne, ir brincar com os meninos. Don: Mas brincar como?
Elisabeth: Ah, I was a child ... just a child, really little, that I liked to go with the boys, you know? You know, go and play with the boys.
Don: But play in what way?
E: Ah, play, can I say it? [laughs] Ah, I liked, I liked to have sex with the boys, you know, play sex with the boys, to/you know?
D: Really? E: Yeah, I adored it, it was my favorite hobby [laughs]. To play hiding with the boys, in the woods, in the banana palms, you know?
A few minutes later in the same conversation, talking about the same playmates:
E: ... and I let myself be penetrated by them, I adored being penetrated. D: Really be penetrated? E: Of course be penetrated, yeah, I let myself be penetrated, like, I was a very penetrated person [or "generous person"-this is a pun on the word dada, and Elisabeth laughs at this].
" The experiences and the thoughts that lead travestis to take that step begin in a childhood recalled as a period of erotic play with other boys and attraction to other males, always culminating in a series of sexual experiences in which the young travesti is anally penetrated by playmates or by older boys or men. Once this happens, boys who become travestis begin to experiment with female clothing in an increasingly open manner, and they begin modifying their bodies, in various ways, in a more feminine direction. As these modifications become more apparent, these boys either leave or are expelled from their family homes. Away from home, they are freer to fully explore what they experience as their feminine nature. They meet older and more experienced travestis, and perhaps lovers and clients, who offer them advice about how to enhance and perfect themselves as feminine."
My opinion here is ;Once I started being " penetrated ", and very much liked it, my sexual role was established,"a point of no return "
(adored / loved)
Like Elisabeth states above ; I was a very penetrated person [or "generous person" , At age 13, I got penetrated by my two friends quite a bit, yet once as a adult ,and starting in 1998 , I could say then " I was a very penetrated person [or "generous person" - me
For myself " genital reassignment surgery " would be for showing a male sexual partner, that I am truly " fully female sexually roled ",
and it would be a zero-depth type vulvoplasty, for cosmetic reasons only, as I still want penetrated anally, and I love offering a man that opportinity, as it is different, and I love the feeling of being anally penetrated and ejaculated in.
There is no separation between orientation and gender: to desire to be penetrated makes a male into a woman, in this context. And anyone who knows gay men well knows that this is something they are aware of. As Cantor observed, ‘perhaps feminine homosexual men are just not fully-formed HSTS transwomen.’?